Harmonic balancer styles for ALH

300D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Location
New England
TDI
Mk6
Mid engine swap. I have two different harmonic balancer styles in front of me. Fatty looking ‘older’ style, and the thin looking ‘newer’ style that uses shorter bolts. Both engines are 2003. Engine coming out had the older style fatty.

Any preference? Manual transmission with SMF conversion if that matters.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
Well if you wanna smooth it out a little, a fluidampr works but not really necessary but noticable.

I'd probably say short bolt one...shorter bolts should have less torsional flex when torquing

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

300D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Location
New England
TDI
Mk6
Well if you wanna smooth it out a little, a fluidampr works but not really necessary but noticable.

I'd probably say short bolt one...shorter bolts should have less torsional flex when torquing

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Those fluidampr things look nice but with the amount of money flowing out of the pocket it will definitely be a choice between the two currently on the bench. I was surprised at how different they are. I think I will go with the short bolt one. Thanks for the feedback. You have been super helpful with all my questions.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
Another thing to look for is any signs of degradation. Look for cracking in the rubber.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

300D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Location
New England
TDI
Mk6
Another thing to look for is any signs of degradation. Look for cracking in the rubber.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
The short bolt one has no rubber. It’s very curious how different they are. I read something somewhere about DMF Vs SMF and the two different balancers. How they might make a difference in terms of the frequencies of vibration. But as with lots of info online, not really a clear conclusion.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
The short bolt one has no rubber. It’s very curious how different they are. I read something somewhere about DMF Vs SMF and the two different balancers. How they might make a difference in terms of the frequencies of vibration. But as with lots of info online, not really a clear conclusion.
I did some looking back when I went SMF and never found anything concrete, general consensus was it doesn't matter that much. I found a new fluidampr for 400 and wanted to see what the hype was all about, it seemed to idle a tad bit smoother and seemed worth it while I was active duty... nowadays, probably not.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
The one on the right don't look like a TDI. I guess I've only ever had the long bolt style

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
Cool, I wonder if the brm balancer gives more engine feedback...shakes more

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
You want the heavier "fatter" one. I had a fluidampr on my MkVI, and it was a necessity after going to an SMF, the vibrations kill the cast steel synchros on the 6spd. I got lucky on the forums here and got a used fluidampr for my MkIV, and I've gone again with an SMF.

Not strictly necessary as the brass synchros on the 5spd don't suffer the same fatigue breakdown. However, it does smooth things out and helps dampen harmonic engine vibrations. If you've got a DMF clutch setup,you probably won't notice the difference.I do notice the difference with my setup, but it is subtle. I'm convinced however that it improves longevity/durability on the overall drivetrain.

My $.02
 

jackfolstam

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Location
CA
TDI
MkI Rabbit ALH swap
The one on the right don't look like a TDI. I guess I've only ever had the long bolt style

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I did see the thinner style on a mk4 tdi in the junkyard one time, not sure which year it was.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The 2003s usually have the short bolt type, as do most of the PD engines. I have never noticed any difference in NVH of anything on the engine to be honest. And I cannot say I have ever seen either type fail on any ALH.

I'd say use whichever you like. I'd probably use whichever one has the nicest bolts to go with it, as these often get rounded out due to poor quality tool choices and overtorquing them, as well as just general rust in certain geographical areas.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
To be clear, IMO, if you're going to run a DMF clutch, go with oilhammer's recommendation, ie. just pick the nicest one.

With an SMF and any other tq/hp upgrades, go with the rubber for additional dampening.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
Get another car and use both, you can drive one and work on the other. Until the time they both break at once
 

300D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Location
New England
TDI
Mk6
That is my strategy, has worked out well...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I have a 1995 T100 as my back up. But sadly it is losing the rust battle despite my efforts to patch and weld.

Why did VW make the change? Price savings? Engineering advance? Same exact engine. Newer one is way lighter and significantly shorter bolts. Seems like a lot of their moves over time have been about smoothing out the diesel experience, so why this change if it were to result in less smooth in the exact same engine?
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I have a 1995 T100 as my back up. But sadly it is losing the rust battle despite my efforts to patch and weld.



Why did VW make the change? Price savings? Engineering advance? Same exact engine. Newer one is way lighter and significantly shorter bolts. Seems like a lot of their moves over time have been about smoothing out the diesel experience, so why this change if it were to result in less smooth in the exact same engine?
It's possible that the fat Daddy's were deemed excessive and the small one did as good or better...cost less due to less amount of metal

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Manufacturers change things all the time, I suspect it is a combination of cost and durability. Sometimes they change back and forth.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
That is my strategy, has worked out well...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Me too, until last night. Today I have two to work on
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
I have a 1995 T100 as my back up. But sadly it is losing the rust battle despite my efforts to patch and weld.
Why did VW make the change? Price savings? Engineering advance? Same exact engine. Newer one is way lighter and significantly shorter bolts. Seems like a lot of their moves over time have been about smoothing out the diesel experience, so why this change if it were to result in less smooth in the exact same engine?
The ‘03 on my stand has the small one. Could be the manufacturing side. Ford quit building the Crown Vic for police cruisers because manufacturing tooling wore to the point it was too expensive to repair it, heard that from a Ford rep at a training session.
 

300D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Location
New England
TDI
Mk6
The ‘03 on my stand has the small one. Could be the manufacturing side. Ford quit building the Crown Vic for police cruisers because manufacturing tooling wore to the point it was too expensive to repair it, heard that from a Ford rep at a training session.

I have also been reading that harmonic dampers are not needed as much for modern engines. That the crank is engineered to deal with any of the frequencies itself and doesn't need anything added to protect it. Maybe VW got to the point where it decided that the fatty just wasn't needed anymore because the ALH setup was working fine with or without. As a side note, that link I posted earlier has Drivbiwire explicitly stating the small one is perfectly fine and maybe even desired.

With that said, one thing I am thinking is to stick with the fatty so that I minimize unexpected sounds/vibrations with so much else being replaced.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I started my beetle without a balancer on it...kinda forgot/got excited about seeing if it'd actually run for the first time...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Some of their purpose is for the benefit of the drive belt system, and not at all for the engine itself.
 

300D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Location
New England
TDI
Mk6
Forgot to note that the skinny harmonic balancer is off of a 2003 automatic wagon where as the fatty is off of a 2003 manual wagon.

I think I have decided to go with Fatty. This removes one more “it’s running weird and there are so many reasons why this could be” reason.
 

300D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Location
New England
TDI
Mk6
The auto has that huge torque converter thingy,,,, just sayin'.
Your auto? My auto? All autos? The two in front of me are a fatty from a manual and a skinny from an auto. I think the change happened on a date rather by transmission type.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
The auto has that huge torque converter thingy,,,, just sayin'.
I was wondering that also, but my '03 donor car with a stick had the small one. Can't confirm it was born with it, but probably.
 
Top