2002 beetle always hard to start

NickWa

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Location
Burlington, wa
TDI
New Beetle
My car is a recently purchased 2002 1.9l tdi beetle. My problem is the car is alway hard to start (warm or cold) it takes ~5-10 seconds of cranking.

-per previous owner after MANY trips to dealership she was told "it is just always hard to start, thats how the car is".

-I cannot accept this so I took the car to a local "bavarian auto shop" and the got the code P0128 (coolant temp sensor).

-I unplugged the coolant temp sensor (green sensor) to find that it fired up beautifully! So i installed a new temp sensor and the problem returned. (unless temp sensor is unplugged)

-I know this has happened to many others but am having a hard time finding any fixes posted.

Please if anyone has fixed this respond to my pm's or this thread!

Thanks in advance! Nick

further info
-87,000 miles on odo
-ambient temp 50f+
-timing is good
-timing belt is good
-no other codes thrown on check
-just cleaned MAF
-this has been a long term problem
 

Geomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
Since unplugging the coolant temp sensor helped, you might try extending the glow plug time in VCDS (aka Vag Com):http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=123304
You need to find someone with a Vag Com, but it is any easy and quick procedure (your bavarian shop might not have Vag Com).
50f is not cold enough to get glow plug pre glow but cold enough for some engines to start hard. I don't know about the hard starting warm though...
Here is another hard starting thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=121675
There is a lot of information on this forum.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Injection timing that is late (retarded/not advanced enough) will cause poor/hard/long cranking/starting times.
Unplugging the CTS is fooling the GPs into cycling for a default time regardless of the ambient temp allowing easier/quicker starts.
 

NickWa

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Location
Burlington, wa
TDI
New Beetle
Thanks guys, I had wondered about retarded injection pump timing but do not as of now have access to a vag com. Other threads have suggested the starter (which begs the question. Why does it start fine with the injection pump timing advanced?) perhaps its just creating ideal conditions for a start up, overpowering other factors (i.e. slow starter crank). Either way I think I will try the starter today. Friday I will go to a different mechanic (one I trust) and have him look it over. I will post the fix once it is resolved.
 

NickWa

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Location
Burlington, wa
TDI
New Beetle
I took the car to a local mechanic (where I take my trucks). He tore into it and found the timing to be terminally f*&%$^. He said whoever was working on it before adjusted the timing so many times they wore grooves in the cam gear (if that makes any sense). The mechanic states that he basically needs to start the timing completely over again, as if he had just done the belt and then he will know where we stand on the condition of the injection pump. Its shaping up to look pretty pricey. I will keep this thread posted should anyone be interested.
 

NickWa

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Location
Burlington, wa
TDI
New Beetle
the thrilling conclusion

Ok, not that there has been a lot of interest in this thread but just in case someone else has the same problem. my mechanic started by correcting the timing which was way off, and replacing the starter (which was dying). This did not correct the problem but helped (a little). I drove the car for a few hundred miles and then it completely died on the street, I rolled it into a parking lot and had it towed back to the shop. THE FINAL FIX WAS A NEW INJECTION PUMP. The total cost of all these repairs was $2,500. Thats a lot of money. But for that amount they did my timing, cleaned my intake, replaced my starter, purchased a vag-com for their shop, and pretty much went over my whole engine. Bottom line, it starts great and all of those things separately would have cost much more, so thanks to Steve's Automotive in Burlington, WA.
On a side note all of the other posts on this subject steered me toward an injection pump, find a good mechanic who knows this website and Portland Injection Service.
Thanks
Nick
 

puter

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
FYI, Matt is a TDI guru and has a shop in Redmond. You may want to consider going to him in the future.

Not saying that the shop you went to is bad, just that he will know your car much better.
 

NickWa

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Location
Burlington, wa
TDI
New Beetle
thx

Thanx Puter, I will consider that in the future. I have also heard of a guy in Arlington who is pretty well versed in the TDI. I think I may possibly be losing prime to my new IP :( , I went to the store for about 45 min today and came back and the car was VERY hard to start. Back to the drawing board. This car keeps getting better with each thing I get fixed but Im not quite to the "runs great" point yet.
 

2001TDINB

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Location
Spokane Wa.
TDI
2000 New Beetle GLS TDI, (Stock) Yellow Clearcoat LD1B/J5
Thanx Puter, I will consider that in the future. I have also heard of a guy in Arlington who is pretty well versed in the TDI. I think I may possibly be losing prime to my new IP :( , I went to the store for about 45 min today and came back and the car was VERY hard to start. Back to the drawing board. This car keeps getting better with each thing I get fixed but Im not quite to the "runs great" point yet.
Sorry to see your problems NickWa. :(

Here is another good thread for you to watch and maybe get some help from as well.

Seattle area VAG-Com/timing belt assistance
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=275854

I am really thinking that you need to take it to a Guru on your side of the state, and from the looks of it there are several great choices for you to do that with, I would do it before I dropped another dime into it for sure. :(
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
.....
I am really thinking that you need to take it to a Guru on your side of the state, and from the looks of it there are several great choices for you to do that with, I would do it before I dropped another dime into it for sure. :(
Agreed.
While you may have confidence in the shop/mechanic you've been using if they just aquired VCDS while working on your car they don't have the experience to properly diagnose TDI problems. Get it one of the real gurus. These guys see similar issues every day. If you spent $2500 on a '02 ALH it should be running fantastic.
 

NickWa

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Location
Burlington, wa
TDI
New Beetle
Agreed.
While you may have confidence in the shop/mechanic you've been using if they just aquired VCDS while working on your car they don't have the experience to properly diagnose TDI problems. Get it one of the real gurus. These guys see similar issues every day. If you spent $2500 on a '02 ALH it should be running fantastic.
Yeah bud you got a point, and I feel a little sick. The problem was persisting so I combed this web site some more info and tore into the car at work on friday night. I put a clear fuel line between the fuel filter and the IP and it was running about 50% air through the line. After just a little fooling around I found the o-rings on the warm fuel return valve (aka tee thing) to be shot. The motor cycle mechanic across the alley gave me a couple new o-rings to replace them and HOLY S*%$ the bubbles in the fuel line went away, and the car now starts perfectly and performs WAY better. cost $0.00, I think Im gonna be sick again.
 

NickWa

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Location
Burlington, wa
TDI
New Beetle
yeah

Yeah I agree with the diagnosis comment. If you read first post you already know this has been going on for a long time and was missed by the dealership(no suprise) prior to my buying the vehicle. So Its possible it did wear the IP down I suppose (by running it dry), also the starter was gone (also a product of long crank times Im sure). You guys are right Should have gone to a Guru (or just fixed it myself to begin with). Expensive lesson.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Yeah I agree with the diagnosis comment. If you read first post you already know this has been going on for a long time and was missed by the dealership(no suprise) prior to my buying the vehicle. So Its possible it did wear the IP down I suppose (by running it dry), also the starter was gone (also a product of long crank times Im sure). You guys are right Should have gone to a Guru (or just fixed it myself to begin with). Expensive lesson.
So did you end up w/VCDS or did the shop?? If the shop, anyway to retrive it for your own? :confused:
 

NickWa

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Location
Burlington, wa
TDI
New Beetle
So did you end up w/VCDS or did the shop?? If the shop, anyway to retrive it for your own? :confused:
Not bloody likely, I have seen a few TDIs in their lot, I think they felt it was a niche they could capitalize on. I am pissed about the money, but this is my first TDI and it finally runs right, so I am SO stoked on how it performs and the mileage it gets, It helps me forget that bulls*(% . TDI's ROCK!

Nick
 
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