Those who opted-out can now opt-in to the settlement

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
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Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Wondering if anyone else got one of these letters. Some excerpts from the letter:

"Volkswagen has agreed to provide to current owners and currents lessees who opted out of the 2.0-Liter Settlement the opportunity to participate in the 2.0-Liter Settlement Program, on the same terms as set forth in the 2,0-Liter Settlement. Eligible current owners and eligible current lessees of eligible 2.0-Liter vehicles who opted out of the 2.0-Liter Settlement have until May 12, 2017 to join the 2.0-Liter Settlement Program."

Just curious if anyone else got one of these. The weird part, is they screwed up on the spelling of my name, but at least they have the address correct. Apparently, I have the same options as before - buyback or the fix. But with the DPF delete, I'm sure I wouldn't qualify (nor want) the fix, and while the $12000-ish that I'm being offered is enticing, I'd probably take a pass, because I don't have anything to replace it with. I bought my 2005 Jetta Wagon for my mother (even though I still legally own it), so I wouldn't be using that car. Love my Golf, but it's too small for some of the long trips I make without a trailer for work purposes.

Anyways, I'm just wondering if anyone else who opted-out got one of these letters and is reconsidering their position on the settlement.
 

Armby

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Ottawa, Canada
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2013 Golf
You do know that you are not obliged to get the fix or buyback if you are in the settlement. Why would you stay opted-out unless you plan to sue. Keep your options open ... or in your case, get your options back.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
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Medina, TX
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2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Ended up calling VW on this, because I'm still confused by the purpose of this letter. Before being put on hold, the representative stated that an AEM (approved emissions modification) will be required to be done on the car, but the benefit of opting-in means a cash payment, and opting-out means no cash payment. This doesn't really make sense, given that diesels are exempted from emissions requirements in the State of Texas. She said something about EPA and CARB requiring the fix. I'm the least bit worried about CARB, since I don't keep my vehicles in CARB territory, and I doubt the EPA will have the resources to jail those who drive around TDIs without the fix.


And, at the close of the call, she said that if our state won't block diesel registration, then I have nothing to worry about. Still weird why I'd be encouraged to get the fix and opt back in. Yup, I don't see Texas changing its stance on diesel emissions, unless it wants to piss off the majority of voters, especially those in agriculture, timber, and construction.
 

DanB36

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Well, VW does still have that target if 85% of Eligible Vehicles either fixed or bought back. If they felt like they were in danger of missing that target (which I doubt), and if there were large numbers who had opted out (which there aren't), it would make sense for them to try to convince some of the opter-outers to opt back in.

But as it stands now, even having opted out, you can still have the fix done, if and when one is approved. You just won't get any money for it.
 

Armby

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So I say again, why would you stay opted-out unless you intend to sue. What other advantage is there? If you are not opt-out you can still choose not to get the buy back or fix. But if something changes in the next year and a half you can take advantage of the settlement if you want.
 

Lucsar

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So I say again, why would you stay opted-out unless you intend to sue. What other advantage is there? If you are not opt-out you can still choose not to get the buy back or fix. But if something changes in the next year and a half you can take advantage of the settlement if you want.
Exactly like you said...BUT..." you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.."
 

Armby

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Exactly like you said...BUT..." you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.."
I am not trying to lead the horse anywhere. I just want to understand why he is headed away from the water. Maybe there is somewhere else to drink I am not aware of.
 

Diesl

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If he neither wants to sell nor 'fix', there is no advantage in opting in. As it seems, you can opt back in, but I bet you can't opt out once you are in.

As to VW's motivation: the opted-out cars might appear as a liability on their balance sheet.
 

Miss_Athanatos

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Kansas
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Ended up calling VW on this, because I'm still confused by the purpose of this letter. Before being put on hold, the representative stated that an AEM (approved emissions modification) will be required to be done on the car, but the benefit of opting-in means a cash payment, and opting-out means no cash payment. This doesn't really make sense, given that diesels are exempted from emissions requirements in the State of Texas. She said something about EPA and CARB requiring the fix. I'm the least bit worried about CARB, since I don't keep my vehicles in CARB territory, and I doubt the EPA will have the resources to jail those who drive around TDIs without the fix.


And, at the close of the call, she said that if our state won't block diesel registration, then I have nothing to worry about. Still weird why I'd be encouraged to get the fix and opt back in. Yup, I don't see Texas changing its stance on diesel emissions, unless it wants to piss off the majority of voters, especially those in agriculture, timber, and construction.
EPA's already published at multiple points that the cars are safe and legal to drive. I don't see how they could come back and say that the cars are no longer safe and legal to drive without some subsequent change in the cars' operation or make-up.

-- Nicole
 

turbobrick240

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If he neither wants to sell nor 'fix', there is no advantage in opting in. As it seems, you can opt back in, but I bet you can't opt out once you are in.

As to VW's motivation: the opted-out cars might appear as a liability on their balance sheet.
I'm pretty sure he has no plans to sue, so by opting in he'd basically just be keeping his options open.
 

Armby

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If he neither wants to sell nor 'fix', there is no advantage in opting in. As it seems, you can opt back in, but I bet you can't opt out once you are in.
If the OP is not ever going to sue nor sell nor fix then it doesn't matter what he does now. But circumstances change. What option does he want to keep open, the option to sue or the option to sell or fix.

The key thing is that he doesn't have to be opted out in order to do nothing.
 

DrgRnnr

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NC
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2011 Jetta
I also received the letter for my original 2011 Jetta that I opted out on. It appears it to be a last ditch effort to get the OO's to opt back in before any settlements are determined for those cases.
My attorney did send me an email over the weekend before receiving the letter stating to ignore the VW letter and that they are making progress. The email also had some other details about the case and it sounds promising. Time will only tell.
 

PacCoastFwy923

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I may have no plans to sell back, but if I wreck, I may change my mind.

I may have no plans to sell back, but if I suffer an exceptional mechanical issue, I may change my mind.

I may have no plans to sell back, but if the market becomes inundated with "priced right" low mileage 2015 CPOs I may change my mind.

Like TurboBrick and Armby are saying, unless there's a pending lawsuit, there's really no upside to opting out.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
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Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Well, VW does still have that target if 85% of Eligible Vehicles either fixed or bought back. If they felt like they were in danger of missing that target (which I doubt), and if there were large numbers who had opted out (which there aren't), it would make sense for them to try to convince some of the opter-outers to opt back in.

But as it stands now, even having opted out, you can still have the fix done, if and when one is approved. You just won't get any money for it.
I can't think of why I'd have a VW-approved fix done. My DPF delete fix has been awesome. Other than usual maintenance crap like suspension or scheduled maintenance items, I haven't had any problems with the car.

So I say again, why would you stay opted-out unless you intend to sue. What other advantage is there? If you are not opt-out you can still choose not to get the buy back or fix. But if something changes in the next year and a half you can take advantage of the settlement if you want.
That was the original intention, although I haven't had time to try and pursue that yet, with other things going on. I still don't see any benefits in my particular situation, though. For instance, there's nothing comparable I could replace my JSW with, so a buyback is out.

EPA's already published at multiple points that the cars are safe and legal to drive. I don't see how they could come back and say that the cars are no longer safe and legal to drive without some subsequent change in the cars' operation or make-up.

-- Nicole
True, but I'm just repeating what the rep said, which sounded like bull$#it to me.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
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I may have no plans to sell back, but if I wreck, I may change my mind.

I may have no plans to sell back, but if I suffer an exceptional mechanical issue, I may change my mind.

I may have no plans to sell back, but if the market becomes inundated with "priced right" low mileage 2015 CPOs I may change my mind.

Like TurboBrick and Armby are saying, unless there's a pending lawsuit, there's really no upside to opting out.
I agree with the above post. Unless pkhoury really intends to sue Volkswagen on your own, opting-in to the settlement so that he can keep his options open is the most prudent choice. Situations and circumstances change, often at the least opportune time.
 

Miss_Athanatos

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Like TurboBrick and Armby are saying, unless there's a pending lawsuit, there's really no upside to opting out.
There are good reasons on both sides. Even without a pending lawsuit, choosing not to opt in at this point does have upsides. For example, remaining true to the position that the settlement is for the primary benefit of the EPA and does not address the fraud which VW perpetrated on the individuals who bought their manufactured products. I'm not saying that is my position, but it's one that I've heard from other VW owners who intend to stay outside the EPA/CARB settlement. Basically, I've talked to some people who think it's selling out their position to opt in.
 

Mythdoc

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There are good reasons on both sides. Even without a pending lawsuit, choosing not to opt in at this point does have upsides. For example, remaining true to the position that the settlement is for the primary benefit of the EPA and does not address the fraud which VW perpetrated on the individuals who bought their manufactured products. I'm not saying that is my position, but it's one that I've heard from other VW owners who intend to stay outside the EPA/CARB settlement. Basically, I've talked to some people who think it's selling out their position to opt in.


Sounds principled, but is upside down. There is no way the settlement would be this generous without the EPA's involvement. That is an inconvenient truth for some.
 

surfstar

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SB, CA
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There are good reasons on both sides. Even without a pending lawsuit, choosing not to opt in at this point does have upsides. For example, remaining true to the position that the settlement is for the primary benefit of the EPA and does not address the fraud which VW perpetrated on the individuals who bought their manufactured products. I'm not saying that is my position, but it's one that I've heard from other VW owners who intend to stay outside the EPA/CARB settlement. Basically, I've talked to some people who think it's selling out their position to opt in.
What are the damages, to that individual, though?
I'm emotionally scarred because my TDI puts out more NOx than they said it would?
Theoretical health impacts based on the higher emissions?
Decreased value of the vehicle? That actually didn't play out. They dropped at first, but now are selling for higher than kbb, due to the buyback.

You need [provable] damages to seek restitution. I fail to see how an individual will do any better than the Class did.

"True to their position", IMO = narcissistic.
 

kjclow

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Well, VW does still have that target if 85% of Eligible Vehicles either fixed or bought back. If they felt like they were in danger of missing that target (which I doubt), and if there were large numbers who had opted out (which there aren't), it would make sense for them to try to convince some of the opter-outers to opt back in.

But as it stands now, even having opted out, you can still have the fix done, if and when one is approved. You just won't get any money for it.
I'm guessing that it is just VWs way of crossing the Is and dotting the Ts. Show the EPA/CARB that they have tried once more to contact all of the effected owners.
 

kjclow

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Location
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
What are the damages, to that individual, though?
I'm emotionally scarred because my TDI puts out more NOx than they said it would?
Theoretical health impacts based on the higher emissions?
Decreased value of the vehicle? That actually didn't play out. They dropped at first, but now are selling for higher than kbb, due to the buyback.

You need [provable] damages to seek restitution. I fail to see how an individual will do any better than the Class did.

"True to their position", IMO = narcissistic.
I'm emotionally scarred because owning my 2011 Golf for five and a half years only cost me a few thousand dollars including fuel and I now expect that out of any vehicle.:(:rolleyes:
 

Miss_Athanatos

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Sounds principled, but is upside down. There is no way the settlement would be this generous without the EPA's involvement. That is an inconvenient truth for some.
I hear ya. Everyone has his own views and good reasons. Not everyone has opted out to sue individually, however.

What are the damages, to that individual, though?
I'm emotionally scarred because my TDI puts out more NOx than they said it would?
Theoretical health impacts based on the higher emissions?
Decreased value of the vehicle? That actually didn't play out. They dropped at first, but now are selling for higher than kbb, due to the buyback.

You need [provable] damages to seek restitution. I fail to see how an individual will do any better than the Class did.

"True to their position", IMO = narcissistic.
The people that I've talked to are not necessarily interested in suing. They simply do not wish to be party to the EPA settlement.

Also, for a fraud case, there are several points you have to prove, not simply that you were damaged due to reliance on the misrepresentation of fact...and people who prove fraud must be made whole first before damages/restitution is assigned.

And joking aside, there is real damage that has been talked about by numerous buyers even on this forum: being put into a condition of serious emotional distress from the indecision over what the options are and what must be done with the autos. Some people have been so bothered by the fiasco that they've rejoiced in their subsequent posts that they're rid of VW for good after their buybacks.

Another example of damage that I've heard from TDI owners are due to statements by dealer reps that service parts are going to dry up for the TDIs, adding to the burden of deciding whether to keep the car as is, get the "fix", or take advantage of the buyback.

Or, that after buying an auto that was certified to CAA standards as drivable without penalty in all 50 states of the USA, it is now possible to be barred from registering or operating the vehicle in at least 6 states.

I personally don't see the people who've opted out and want to remain true to their position as narcissistic, but like I said, everyone has a different view.
 

texnkeroburner

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If it weren't for VW not ever owning up to the bull**** hpfp debacle and them not caring to make a stupid replacement bumper for my car after searching for months, I'd have kept my cup for half a million miles.
 

S2000_guy

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Let's not overlook that one of the reasons we have class actions in the first place is to avoid clogging the courts with thousands (or in this case, hundreds of thousands) of individual lawsuits. If some of those who opted out choose to opt in, the court system wins. It's certainly possible that VW feels that the court will view this as good behavior and perhaps VW will get some small consideration for it.

Plus it would relieve VW of the expense of negotiating individual settlements. Even if the indivivual settlements were no more generous than the class settlement, it cost money to hire the lawyers to handle each case.
 
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pkhoury

That guy with the goats
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Let's not overlook that one of the reasons we have class actions in the first place is to avoid clogging the courts with thousands (or in this case, hundreds of thousands) of individual lawsuits. If some of those who opted out choose to opt in, the court system wins. It's certainly possible that VW feels that the court will view this as good behavior and perhaps VW will get some small consideration for it.

Plus it would relieve VW of the expense of negotiating individual settlements. Even if the indivivual settlements were no more generous than the class settlement, it cost money to hire the lawyers to handle each case.
While this is true, if I personally feel the settlement is crap, why should I be obligated to opt-in, if I do wish to pursue my own litigation in the future? I don't want to sell the car back, nor do I want a fix. With that said, I don't see how opting back in can help me.
 

VeeDubTDI

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In your case, the only thing that opting back in can help you with is in the event that you change your mind. Financial and personal situations change, so it's always nice to have options. You are certainly under no obligation to opt-in.
 

S2000_guy

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While this is true, if I personally feel the settlement is crap, why should I be obligated to opt-in, if I do wish to pursue my own litigation in the future? I don't want to sell the car back, nor do I want a fix. With that said, I don't see how opting back in can help me.
Why do you think that anything I said implied an obligation to opt back in? It might (or might not) save VW some money; it would lighten the case load on the court system. Neither statement implies that there's an obligation for anyone to give up their legal rights.

I don't care whether you opt in or not. You're adult with a master's degree (or maybe two) who should be able to determine your best course of action. I was just speculating on reasons VW might have offered the option to opt in: saving VW money and currying favor with the courts.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
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Medina, TX
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In your case, the only thing that opting back in can help you with is in the event that you change your mind. Financial and personal situations change, so it's always nice to have options. You are certainly under no obligation to opt-in.
True, but say I want to pursue individual litigation in the future. So if I opt back in (the deadline for it to be postmarked is tomorrow, btw), then I lose all rights to sue them individually. As for personal situations, I can't possibly imagine what would change where I'd need to ditch the JSW. Although I'll be honest, if I did replace it, I wouldn't mind a Mercedes Eurovan (aka Dodge Sprinter). A little too tall to drive it how I do the JSW, but capacity and fuel economy-wise, that'd be the closest replacement I can think of.

Why do you think that anything I said implied an obligation to opt back in? It might (or might not) save VW some money; it would lighten the case load on the court system. Neither statement implies that there's an obligation for anyone to give up their legal rights.
I personally don't care if it saves VW or the court money. Besides, if I sued, it would be at a local level. I hardly doubt it would be a strain on the local courts, in a county that has a population under 22K.

But with that said, it's something I've thought about, but whether I actually follow through and pursue, that's another thing. I've been very happy with this car so far.

I don't care whether you opt in or not. You're [an] adult with a double master's degree (or maybe two)who should be able to determine your best course of action. I was just speculating on reasons VW might have offered the option to opt in: saving VW money and currying favor with the courts.
Fair enough.
 
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MBQ

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Let's say god forbidden you're involved in an car accident and there'll be a 10k repair bill out of your own pocket or after that the car is barely drivable.

What are you gonna do? Opt-in or Opt-out which one helps you more?
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Let's say god forbidden you're involved in an car accident and there'll be a 10k repair bill out of your own pocket or after that the car is barely drivable.

What are you gonna do? Opt-in or Opt-out which one helps you more?
You want my honest opinion on that? Whatever settlement I get from my insurance company, I'd find another common rail VW, either a Sportwagen or a Golf, and start swapping whatever components are still usable over.

FWIW, the car was declared a total loss due to hail, and the repair bill wasn't quite 10K, but more around 7K. But thanks to our great state, a hail total loss won't deem a vehicle a salvage title.

Thank God I haven't been in any major accidents, or hit any animals over 30 pounds this year, with all the driving I do.
 
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