FIX approved!!!!!

KERMA · Jan 6, 2017

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKBN14Q21P

2015 cars are good to go.

By David Shepardson | WASHINGTON

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has approved a fix for about 70,000 polluting Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) diesel vehicles, involving an initial software change available now, it said on Friday.

A second phase of the fix will start about a year from now when VW will install more software updates and new hardware, including a diesel particulate filter, diesel oxidation catalyst and NOx catalyst.

The vehicles covered by the approved fix are the 2015 diesel Volkswagen Beetle, Golf, Golf SportWagen, Jetta, Passat and 2015 diesel Audi A3.

The German automaker agreed to buy back up to 475,000 polluting 2009-2015 vehicles in June at a cost of as much as $10.033 billion, or fix them if regulators approved.

In October, a federal judge approved VW's settlement with regulators and U.S. owners of 475,000 polluting diesel vehicles with smaller 2.0-liter engines, including an offer to buy back or fix all of the cars.

VW is still waiting for approval for fixes for about 400,000 remaining 2.0 liter vehicles.

"With today's approval, VW can offer vehicle owners the choice to keep and fix their car, or to have it bought back," the EPA said in a statement, adding that test data demonstrated the fix would "not affect vehicle fuel economy, reliability, or durability."

Volkswagen said Friday about 58,000 of those vehicles are in retail customers hands. The automaker has been eager to win approval so it can offer fixes and deter some owners who have been intentionally damaging vehicles before selling them back to the company.

VW will now be able to resell diesel vehicles that they repurchased once they are fixed.

VW spokeswoman Jeannine Ginivan said the approval was "an important step" and will notify owners so they can implement fixes as soon as possible.

Volkswagen has now agreed to spend as much as $17.5 billion in the United States to resolve claims from owners as well as federal and state regulators over polluting diesel vehicles.

Reuters reported Friday that Volkswagen is in talks and is close to an agreement with the Justice Department to pay more than $3 billion to resolve civil and criminal allegations stemming from its diesel cheating scandal.

Last month, VW also agreed to fix or buy back 80,000 polluting 3.0-liter diesel vehicles sold. The settlement deal covered luxury VW, Audi and Porsche vehicles with 3.0-liter engines and includes a buyback offer for 20,000.

(Reporting by David Shepardson; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn, Bernard Orr)

mustang462002 · Jan 6, 2017

Wow!!!

Great news! I might be able to buy a 2015 as long as there is no price gouging.

wolf1389 · Jan 6, 2017

**** yes!! I get to keep my car!!!!!!!!!!!! :d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d

KERMA · Jan 6, 2017

I'm looking forward to taking advantage of the coming glut of excellent CPO CBEA/CJAA cars on the used car market later this year. Complete with fresh warranty and all.

(of course those are not the 2015 and it's not "official" yet but still anticipating)

pdq import repair · Jan 6, 2017

Up goes the value of the existing cars soon as people start to embrace them again as non polluters and "fixed"

jeepnguy · Jan 6, 2017

So there is a software fix now, then hardware later?

KERMA · Jan 6, 2017

EPA statement

https://www.epa.gov/vw/statement-ep...rd-approve-remedy-reduce-excess-nox-emissions

Statement: EPA and California Air Resources Board Approve Remedy to Reduce Excess NOx Emissions from Generation 3 2.0-Liter Diesel Vehicles
On October 25, 2016, the Court entered a $14.7 billion partial settlement with Volkswagen to resolve alleged Clean Air Act violations from the sale of 2.0 liter diesel vehicles that were equipped with software designed to cheat on federal emissions tests. The settlement allows VW to propose and seek EPA and CARB approval for technical remedies to address the pollution violations. Today, EPA and CARB are approving a remedy proposed by Volkswagen that will reduce the excess NOx emissions from the Generation 3 diesel 2.0 liter vehicles. With today’s approval, VW can offer vehicle owners the choice to keep and fix their car, or to have it bought back. The test data and technical information VW submitted to EPA and CARB demonstrated that the emissions modification being approved today will not affect vehicle fuel economy, reliability, or durability. EPA and CARB confirmed those conclusions through independent testing and analysis at their own laboratories.
The Generation 3 vehicle models covered by the approved emissions remedy are the model year 2015 diesel Volkswagen Beetle, Beetle Convertible, Golf, Golf SportWagen, Jetta, and Passat, and the model year 2015 diesel Audi A3.
Today’s approval means that VW can now notify customers that the emissions modification is available and begin performing the modification at its dealerships. The approved modification requires both software and hardware replacement, and will take place in two phases. The first phase involves a software change that is available to customers now. The second phase involves further software changes as well as hardware changes that are not yet available. In the first phase, VW will remove the defeat device software and replace it with software that directs the emission controls to function effectively in all typical vehicle operation. The second phase will start about a year from now when VW will install more software updates as well as a new diesel particulate filter, diesel oxidation catalyst, and NOx catalyst, all needed to maintain vehicle reliability and emissions performance over time.
Read the letter (PDF) from EPA and CARB approving this remedy(5 pp, 858 K, January 6, 2017, About PDF).

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...n-3-ems-modf-appvl-issued-2017-01-06-exec.pdf

fredthe · Jan 6, 2017

Good info and links to all the docs and a FAQ on the CARB site (which I had looked at a couple of hours ago, and it wasn't there yet)
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/vw_info/vw-diesel-info/vw-diesel-info.htm

fredthe · Jan 6, 2017

From the CARB FAQ:

What is the modification?
The modification is a 2-step process and includes a new Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter . Phase 2 involves a second NOx sensor and corresponding software to improve the performance of the Onboard Diagnostic (OBD) system.

From that it looks like step 1 isn't just software, but the EPA statement says otherwise. We'll see....

turbobrick240 · Jan 6, 2017

Fantastic! I can't wait to see the refurbished cars on dealer lots. Hopefully at a good price.

k1xv · Jan 6, 2017

Maybe they will offer some "pre-stripped" models without seats or doors for those so inclined.

jjm · Jan 6, 2017

The statement released by EPA says the fix will not effect fuel economy, reliability, or durability. They don't include performance (I.e., acceleration, torque, etc.). Anyone know details on performance?

fookin · Jan 6, 2017

I noticed the lack of "performance" in their claim of what the software change will not affect. They're using fluff words like "durability" to add to "reliability", which essentially means the same thing. To me that's a diversionary tactic.

compu_85 · Jan 6, 2017

Woah, if the 2015s needed a complete emissions system replacement I wonder what's in store for the Gen 2 cars

-J

turbobrick240 · Jan 6, 2017

My guess is that the stage 1 fix mainly just increases the scr urea injection. Shouldn't have any noticeable impact on performance.

Rico567 · Jan 6, 2017

jjm said:
The statement released by EPA says the fix will not effect fuel economy, reliability, or durability. They don't include performance (I.e., acceleration, torque, etc.). Anyone know details on performance?

Yes, this is the skeleton at the feast. If the car is going to be just as good in the categories mentioned, what takes the hit? If there is nothing else, why did VW do the cheat in the first place? I cannot believe that software magic is all that's going to be required to bring these cars into spec. As Sherlock would say, "When you eliminate the impossible......"

compu_85 · Jan 6, 2017

It's nice that Gen3 owners can get up to 120,000 miles of warranty coverage

fredthe · Jan 6, 2017

compu_85 said:
It's nice that Gen3 owners can get up to 120,000 miles of warranty coverage

More than that, minimum 162k/11 years:

The warranty period for the “Extended Emissions Warranty” limited
warranty extension shall be the greater of:
 11 years or 162,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from
the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the
date and mileage of Phase 1 of the emissions modification.
At the time of the subsequent Phase 2 modification, the
extended warranty will be honored for 5 years or 60,000
miles, whichever occurs first, fr

TurnOne · Jan 6, 2017

jjm said:
The statement released by EPA says the fix will not effect fuel economy, reliability, or durability. They don't include performance (I.e., acceleration, torque, etc.). Anyone know details on performance?

This was my thought exactly. I doubt an oversight to not list performance if it wasn't affected.

I just took my car in for the dealership free oil change(s). They had a used 2016 6k miles R there. Pretty sweet but I don't want to give up 500-650 mile fill ups for $30.

turbobrick240 · Jan 6, 2017

Relax people. You are reading something into nothing.

truman · Jan 6, 2017

Still looks like a protracted mess to me
It will be another 2yrs before we can be sure about the performance of the new system

Rico567 · Jan 6, 2017

truman said:
Still looks like a protracted mess to me
It will be another 2yrs before we can be sure about the performance of the new system

And there you have one of the reasons why I'm keeping my cards face down until late 2018. I've got a perfectly good car to drive until then, and time is nothing but on my side, given the terms of the buyback. If the fix turns out to be all wonderful, then I can always jump in that direction, too.

TurnOne · Jan 6, 2017

Some of the reporting stated the '15 models couldn't go a full 10k without refilling DEF tank and they lowered the DEF usage to match the oil change requirement.
I usually have my oil changed every 5-5.5k. This time I went 6.7k. Felt bad

I'm not sure how much DEF my car uses, but I now believe my dealer tech has been topping all fluids as a standard practice during my free lifetime oil changes. The service person I interact with always asks if I want the DEF refilled and I always say no as their pricing is outrageous. First time I saw a low DEF light was yesterday. "Add Adblue! Range 1500 mi".
But I'm not for sure they do this every time, but enough to keep me from ever seeing the low DEF message.
I found it odd, that the DEF message doesn't show in the center display along with other warnings that I had (Low fuel, low wiper fluid, and change oil now). My dash was all lit up the end of a long cold 8F - 15F to/from a customer in South Bend IN. Drove through a lot of flurries using a bunch of wiper fluid.

EDIT: No free DEF this time. Maybe never? Used VCDS and see tank level 22%. Couple restarts and now saying fill DEF 1200 miles. I guess it just doesn't show you with every start.

TKP · Jan 6, 2017

Will the modifications bring my car into compliance?
Because the vehicles were designed around the defeat device, they cannot be brought fully into compliance. However, the consent decree establishes stringent criteria for approving an emissions modification that will reduce emissions from these vehicles by 80% to 90% or more, without any substantial reduction of fuel economy or performance. Per consent decree requirements, VW will provide a warranty for any emissions modification.

Found this under the FAQ in the CARB site.

Keith63 · Jan 6, 2017

This confirms what I have said all along. There will not be a fix for the Gen 1's or Gen 2's. Just look what they are having to due to the Gen 3's (2015 models) just to make them compliant. Come the deadline for the fix for Gen 1's and Gen 2's, there won't be one and you will have the following two choices:
1) Keep you TDI and receive nothing ( As in no compensation) or
2) Let VW buyback your TDI for a price much less than those who chose the buyback initially.

The more you drive them, the less you receive. The mileage is a killer.

Dr Chill · Jan 6, 2017

But if you drive them < 1042 miles a month, your buyback amount doesn't change.

Demo3 · Jan 6, 2017

Dr Chill said:
But if you drive them < 1042 miles a month, your buyback amount doesn't change.

As an owner of a Gen 1 I have until December 2018 to make my choice. I will get the same compensation today as I will in 2018 as long as I drive it <1042. I think VW would give us a little heads up before they say at January 2019 at 0001 "you guys with the gen. 2 and 3 you are SOL.

GoFaster · Jan 6, 2017

VW's submission deadline for gen 1 is 27 January, and EPA/CARB have 45 days to respond. Even if you take those as business days, that's late March 2017. Assuming the court doesn't change the dates (which they could) ... that's when we should know whether the gen 1 models are fixable.

DanB36 · Jan 6, 2017

Keith63 said:
This confirms what I have said all along. There will not be a fix for the Gen 1's or Gen 2's.

It confirms no such thing. Yes, they need to do a lot to the Gen 3 cars, but they're being held to a higher standard. The standards for the Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars are lower.

The more you drive them, the less you receive. The mileage is a killer.

I guess so, if by "killer" you mean "the lowest depreciation for mileage you'll ever see."

IndigoBlueWagon · Jan 6, 2017

Just got a note that the fix only applies to vehicles in owners' possession, not bought back vehicles or new, unsold cars. No firm date yet on when those cars will be available.

FIX approved!!!!!

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