Cold weather start...

dcjkrueger · Jan 25, 2019

Its going to be below zero here on the North Coast ( Northern Ohio ) Any tips on starting up my 03' Jetta TDI ? I have been adding anti-gel to my fuel. The car is parked outside. Are there any kind of block heaters that you would recommend that are easy to install ? Trickle charge the battery to keep it warm and fully charged ? Thanks in advance for your help.

steve6 · Jan 25, 2019

A oil pan heater is easy.. just sticks on the oil pan. Turn off all electronics before the end of the previous ride, heated seats, heater fan, running lights if possible etc before turning the car off. When you start it make sure all this stuff is off. A trickle charger wont hurt it may prevent the battery from freezing.

Pull the e-brake handle up a bit before you go to start it to keep the running lights off if it has it. 2-3 cycles of the glow plugs is not a bad idea. If you have a good starter and battery it will start

belome · Jan 25, 2019

Make sure you have a good battery and your glow plugs are working properly... and you are good to go.

As for coolant heaters, www.frostheater.com is what most of us buy that live in the cold.

Nevada_TDI · Jan 25, 2019

I purchased a "Frostheater", this is a coolant heater that comes with the clips, clamps, and hoses to install in the MK4 TDI. Although my overnight low temperatures are not as low as yours are, I have to park outside and having a preheated engine is fantastic. The glow plug light is only on for 1 second, if that long, and as soon as I touch the start position the engine lights off. I only wish I would not have waited so long to purchase a Frostheater.

scooperhsd · Jan 25, 2019

And in case you can't get that stuff before tonight -

#1 - pull on parking brake (turns off DRL)]
#2 - put key in ignition, turn ON (but DO NOT go to start yet)
#3 - WAIT for pigtail light to go out, wait a couple seconds more
#4 - NOW turn key to start, keep cranking until car starts. Do not let it go or you will need to repeat steps 1-3 again.

Now, if it is REALLY cold (colder than -20 or -30), you might insert #3A - turn off ignition, turn ON ignition, Wait for pigtail light to go off.

Assuming the rest of your preps were complete (good battery, 5w40 or 0w 40 oil, local, treated fuel), these should be all you need to do.

dcjkrueger · Jan 25, 2019

Thanks everyone. Good advice. Very much appreciated !!

oilhammer · Jan 25, 2019

So long as it is in good working order, it should start OK down to -20F. It may not be happy. It may take a couple preglows. You may have to crank it a bit and hold the starter as first one, then two, then finally three cylinders start hitting and it can run on its own... the fourth will kick in shortly thereafter.

Good battery, of the H7 variety.

Good starter (these starters die slowly.... they rarely won't crank at all when they die, they just get S-S-L-O-W...).

Proper fuel, which shouldn't be a problem unless the car has been sitting since summer.

No fuel leaks to allow for loss of fuel prime.

All the sensors working, and no MIL staring you in the face. The ECU monitors the glow system, it is actually quite good at that.

Proper oil. 5w40 or maybe 0w40 (I use 5w40 year round... and have endured a -24F overnight start).

KDM Mods · Jan 25, 2019

I’m in Minnesota and it was -14 this morning. I waited for the glow light to go off and started cranking. Was very slow cranking but after a bit is started right up!

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iluvmydiesels · Jan 25, 2019

the old cycle the key for 2-3 glow plug cycles is an old IDI trick (mk2s and earlier) they also have (a) long glow plug cycle compared to ours.
the other day is was supposed to be under 20dg F, for the first time this year, i did have a long glow time. if you glow the 2nd time, it should help. (under 15dg F id say).
i try to stay away from the power service anti-gel/fuel additive.
below NYC its rare to have 15dg or 10dg F days and less(usually over night). a few, usually not enough to count on one hand.

Hyde7278 · Jan 26, 2019

Last week it was -11 and this morning it was -13 here in central MI and I ran glow plugs twice and cranked the engine. Both times it took a little for it to start and run on its own but started bolth times with little issue.

I do have a H7 battery in it which makes a huge difference since it has a lot of power.

My car has 315k on it with the original nozzles and turbo on it.

scooperhsd · Jan 26, 2019

Right now, there are predictions for below zero temps first part of next week. My previous cold starting was something 2-8F , may have to dress up and go start them both in that cold.

scooperhsd · Jan 26, 2019

iluvmydiesels said:
the old cycle the key for 2-3 glow plug cycles is an old IDI trick (mk2s and earlier) they also have (a) long glow plug cycle compared to ours.
the other day is was supposed to be under 20dg F, for the first time this year, i did have a long glow time. if you glow the 2nd time, it should help. (under 15dg F id say).
i try to stay away from the power service anti-gel/fuel additive.
below NYC its rare to have 15dg or 10dg F days and less(usually over night). a few, usually not enough to count on one hand.

There is nothing wrong with using PowerService White in cold weather - it does something to the water in the fuel so it won't be a problem, also lowers the cloud point of the fuel so it doesn't form the waxes that stop fuel flow. Yes, it is better to have fuel designed for the current location (hence the admonition to get local fuel before shutting down for the night when traveling south to north), but the Power Service will help.

Gothmolly · Jan 26, 2019

+1 to oilhammer. My starter has been making that "wheeze" for years now, and this winter when it hit zero could only turn the engine REALLY slowly - and I couldn't get it started. And this is on a new battery. I imagine next winter will only be worse.

dcjkrueger · Jan 28, 2019

Thanks all. - 10 to 15 this week. I will let you know how I made out.

KDM Mods · Jan 30, 2019

Well it’s -40F today and my Jetta didn’t start lol. No block heater or anything. Luckily I’m off of school today. I have a Volvo that barely started.

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jhax · Jan 30, 2019

Man, I have experienced -36 a couple times, that is "it hurts to breathe" weather. I worked as a cook at a local restaurant at the time, stepped out side to grab something from the freezer, opened the door and the air coming out of the freezer was warmer than the air outside. It was trippy man.

jmodge · Jan 30, 2019

Left the tail lights on last night for a few hours until my neighbor noticed, -5 with -25° windchill’s this morning. Donna’s car still fired up

scooperhsd · Jan 30, 2019

Just barely below zero this morning, I went out and started my Beetle. Glow plugs on longer than normal, starter cranked more than normal - but it started. And I have only 3 working glow plugs, NO HEATER. Lots of white smoke when it first started up...

belome · Jan 30, 2019

KDM Mods said:
Well it’s -40F today and my Jetta didn’t start lol.

Is it really -40 or is it -40 with the windchill? I know chicago got into the -20's which is getting pretty brutally cold.

KDM Mods · Jan 30, 2019

belome said:
Is it really -40 or is it -40 with the windchill? I know chicago got into the -20's which is getting pretty brutally cold.

My weather app said -33F with windchill of -54F. My car said -40 but it was probably because of the windchill.
Here’s the video of my Volvo starting.
https://youtu.be/FZnTvJi0YT8

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oilhammer · Jan 30, 2019

Wind chill does not apply to inanimate objects, or sensors, or thermometers, or cars.

Taken from the intarwebs:

"The effect of wind chill is to increase the rate of heat loss and reduce any warmer objects to the ambient temperature more quickly. Dry air cannot, however, reduce the temperature of these objects below the ambient temperature, no matter how great the wind velocity."

In other words, if it is 0 F, it is 0 F, no matter how fast or slow the wind is blowing. Your car doesn't care about wind speeds.

The wind CAN, however, reduce the temp of an item down to a particular temp faster, but it cannot ever get it below that temp. So 40 MPH 0 F air is still 0 F air, just the same as if it was not moving at all.

Slurry Pumper · Jan 30, 2019

Hey its around or below the zero mark again, or as I call it on the Nut Meter "Grape Nuts" which means that instead of me getting in the car starting it up and leaving within 30 seconds, I will now let the engine run for about 5 to 10 minutes before I leave. The car sounds like it is chewing on glass at these temps, and I have never had a problem with starting, once the glow plug goes off after about 3 seconds, the car has always just cranked right up.

Can anyone tell me what kind of damage is going on during the chewing glass phase of the engine warm up? It sounds horrible, and I can't believe that this doesn't have a huge impact on things.

oilhammer · Jan 30, 2019

Drive off, slowly, let it get some heat... letting it sit there and run cold isn't helping. Major timing advance curve happening.

Slurry Pumper · Jan 30, 2019

Did I mention that at the Grape Nuts level, I literally don't have the stones to drive off. I typically do just drive off because waiting to warm the engine just doesn't happen and a mile or so down the road the heat will start to kick in. So I guess the theory is to force some heat in the thing so that the lubrication can start to happen as opposed to letting it pump some thick mud around for a few minutes before hand.

oilhammer · Jan 30, 2019

The oil is everywhere it needs to be within about 3 seconds of the engine starting. If it wasn't, the oil pressure warning lamp would be on... and your engine/turbo would already be dead.

iluvmydiesels · Jan 30, 2019

Slurry Pumper said:
I typically do just drive off because waiting to warm the engine just doesn't happen and a mile or so down the road the heat will start to kick in. So I guess the theory is to force some heat in the thing so that the lubrication can start to happen as opposed to letting it pump some thick mud around for a few minutes before hand.

driving esp in the higher gears puts more of a load on motor, makes it work, building heat.
like you notice, just cold starting and sitting there idling wont get much heat, but as little as a mile or so of driving and you can feel heat kick in.

unless you use something like a conv 15w-40 oil, in fairly far north weather like we have now, your oil isnt going to be 'mud', unless you get really low like below -20dg F or even lower. thats why we today tend to use 5w-xx synthetic oils, easily good down to about -25dg F and some lower. (or even 0w-xx syn oils).

scooperhsd · Jan 30, 2019

As long as you have a 5wX or 0wX rated synthetic oil (like you're supposed to use !!) the oil will be everywhere it needs to be very quickly. I would only sit idling long enough (not much more than 30 seconds or so) so it sounds somewhat normal, then drive off at a reasonable speed (IOW - not like you stole it). As you have discovered - the engine won't make much heat idling - it needs to be WORKING to make some heat.

Slurry Pumper · Jan 31, 2019

Driving off within a few seconds of starting the car in the cold is an easy discovery. The few times I have started the car and cleaned of the snow in the "Grape Nuts" zone, ie. below 0 weather, has me worried. The engine just sounds like there is nothing helping the lubrication situation. Of course things seem to pan out because with no oil, I won't be going far, and I've had the car for 8 years now and have never had a problem. The sound however is almost enough for me to shut it down if I didn't know better.

jmodge · Jan 31, 2019

Slurry pumper, the phrase “no head too high”, does that refer to the lift or are you a turd herder? Best thing to combat grape nuts that I have found is dri-dukes and insulated bibs, still won’t help with the chewing glass sound but sometimes one must choose the lesser of two evils

jayb79 · Jan 31, 2019

I have switches on my coolant glow plugs so I can turn them on manually it really helps in city traffic to keep the engine warm and the heat pumping. They automatically come on when temps are below 30f and engine is below about 120f.

Cold weather start...

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