Extream Cold Start & Running observations, Add your comments!

BKmetz · Jan 31, 2019

It was -24F the other morning. My car started right up. Turned out to be a real non-event. Glow plug light was only on for about 2 seconds. It idled just fine and drove normally. It did take a while to reach normal operating temperature. I have the IDParts.com winter grill covers and it does help.

Later I stopped at a business and left the car running. I was inside for about 5 minutes. In that time the coolant temp dropped from 195F to 165F. I have a ScanGauge-II so I see temp changes instantly instead of gradually like the heavily buffered coolant gauge.

I have to admit, when it comes to cold starts, the CR TDIs are wonderful compared to my old B4s and the 300D I used to have. I would even say that the CVCA engine in my 2015 starts easier than the CKRA engine that was in my 2014.

Everyone, please add your cold start and cold running observations.

jck66 · Jan 31, 2019

Ditto for me in terms of easy start and running with my '12 Passat, even though we weren't nearly that cold in my neck of the woods.

I still remember the "good old days" when I had to remember to pull out the advance lever before cold starting (and remember to push it back after a while). Aside from one gelling incident, I never had a non-start situation with my old IDI diesels - but I wouldn't have called them "eager to go".

VeeDubTDI · Jan 31, 2019

Our 2012 would fire right up even in the extreme negatives. The modern glow plugs are impressive, only requiring a few seconds. Gone are the days of multiple glow plug cycles and extended cranking to get things going.

calimustang · Jan 31, 2019

My 2015 Passat at 30-35 degree in Central FL fired up instantly like its not even cold. For my 2014 JSW, it took a bit longer like 3-5 seconds.

First gen TDI vs 3rd gen TDI.... remarkably improved.

Yes I own both.

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ToBiN · Jan 31, 2019

Just picked up a new-to-me 2013 TDI Sportwagen pushbutton start. In CO last week it sat from Tuesday to Friday in single digit temps at night. Mornings were 10* or 11*F. When I tried to start it Friday morning at 6a, it seemed to run on 2 cylinders for about 30seconds to 1 minute before engine smoothed out.

This is the first time I've ever had worry if my diesel was going to start. I did some research and learned waiting for 20-30 seconds for glow plugs to do a thorough job of warming the cylinders - don't trust the GP light on the dash.

Temps have been single at night and 10*-11*F in the mornings again this week. I get in, hit the button to turn on the ignition, then wait 20-30 seconds before using the button again to start the car. This week there has not been any cold starting issue.

oilhammer · Jan 31, 2019

The Sprinter starts the same at 0 F as it does at 90 F. And I think the heat works about as fast too. Seriously, that fuel fired heater has warm air at the vents in about 30 seconds.

My PD starts fine, too, but it is pretty noisy, noisier than the ALHs (and they both have 11mm pumps!).

We've already had a couple Powerstrokes with gelled fuel. Including a coworker's 6.0L

IndyTom12 · Jan 31, 2019

2015 Passat TDI won't start

Hi Guys, I have a 2015 Passat that I bought brand new after they were released in 2017. It had all the software updates and also last year the hardware update done. The last couple of days it was extremely cold. I mean Minus 16 actual temperature with Minus 50 degrees Fahrenheit windchills. Worked from home yesterday since nobody was going anywhere and then tried to start the car this morning. The Remote starter didn't work so I went outside and Pushed the button (Push button start). It did turn over and it started and made this horrible howling noise and after about 4 seconds it shut itself down. Tried again and same thing only this time it shut down almost immediately. It was suppose to warm up a bit today and right now it is 10 Degrees out or minus 12 Celsius but it still doesn't want to start. I did even add a specific Diesel additive to the tank before filling it up since I knew it was going to get frigid out apparently that didn't make any difference. It's my only car and I don't know much of what I can do to make it start. Any suggestions?

IndyTom12 · Jan 31, 2019

Confused.

BKmetz said:
It was -24F the other morning. My car started right up. Turned out to be a real non-event. Glow plug light was only on for about 2 seconds. It idled just fine and drove normally. It did take a while to reach normal operating temperature. I have the IDParts.com winter grill covers and it does help.

Later I stopped at a business and left the car running. I was inside for about 5 minutes. In that time the coolant temp dropped from 195F to 165F. I have a ScanGauge-II so I see temp changes instantly instead of gradually like the heavily buffered coolant gauge.

I have to admit, when it comes to cold starts, the CR TDIs are wonderful compared to my old B4s and the 300D I used to have. I would even say that the CVCA engine in my 2015 starts easier than the CKRA engine that was in my 2014.

Everyone, please add your cold start and cold running observations.

You said your "Glow Plug Light" was only on for 2 seconds? But you have a 2015 Passat Tdi. which I was under the impression doesn't have Glow Plugs?. I have the same identical car you have in the same exact color even, where is the Glow Plug Light on the dash? I can't get mine started. Just went out there again and now it doesn't even want to turn over. I am sure the battery is dead from my previous attempts. I did put it on a charger but that will be a while before it is ready for the next attempt. So to warm up the Glow Plugs I push the ignition button without having my foot on the brake so it can warm up ?? Very confused.

oilhammer · Jan 31, 2019

The 2015 most certainly has a set of glow plugs and a glow plug lamp.

calimustang · Jan 31, 2019

oilhammer said:
The 2015 most certainly has a set of glow plugs and a glow plug lamp.

He is correct. My 2015 Passat TDI do have glow plugs and glow plug light on the instrument cluster....

https://goo.gl/images/BDEeaM

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IndyTom12 · Jan 31, 2019

calimustang said:
He is correct. My 2015 Passat TDI do have glow plugs and glow plug light on the instrument cluster....

https://goo.gl/images/BDEeaM

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Thanks Guys for letting me know. I must have been told wrong. To be honest in the 2 years I had this car I have never seen that symbol on my dash. Up to this point I never worried about it since it always started right up. As soon as the battery is charged I will make another attempt and look for the light. I wonder if there is an issue with the Glow Plugs since I bought this car I never gotten the gas mileage I should. In the winter it is about 26 to 28 Max. In the Summer around 36 max. Once on a longer trip I did get 39 mpg but that was the best I ever got. Thanks again for your help. I hope I don't have to get it towed.

calimustang · Jan 31, 2019

*coughs* what? Your MPG is horrible. I just had my Passat alignment done today and drove her to home from stealership.... made 51 mpg with few stops.... before alignment it struggled to make 47 mpg on highway. Its mostly flat roads here in central Florida.

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ToBiN · Jan 31, 2019

IndyTom12 said:
You said your "Glow Plug Light" was only on for 2 seconds? But you have a 2015 Passat Tdi. which I was under the impression doesn't have Glow Plugs?. I have the same identical car you have in the same exact color even, where is the Glow Plug Light on the dash? I can't get mine started. Just went out there again and now it doesn't even want to turn over. I am sure the battery is dead from my previous attempts. I did put it on a charger but that will be a while before it is ready for the next attempt. So to warm up the Glow Plugs I push the ignition button without having my foot on the brake so it can warm up ?? Very confused.

Indy,
I have the Jetta Sportwagen TDI with Pushbutton start. yes, it can be very confusing but I have found what you just said works. I get in and push, don't hold, the button just to turn the ignition on. You may see the glow plug light come on for a few seconds. I wait for another 20-30 seconds before trying to start the car because I have been told the glowplugs actually run for 26 seconds to warm the cylinders. After that 20-30 seconds I push the clutch, or brake in your case, then push and hold the button to start the car.

I have had very good luck using this method during these cold weeks. Ive only had my car for about 2 weeks thus far. Good luck to you after you get your battery charged.

ToBiN · Jan 31, 2019

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863 said:
What to Do - Frozen IC happened to me!
If the car won't start after one attempt, or stumbles and dies after an initial attempt, ***STOP!*** You have some decision making to do...

Further attempts to start the engine may (or may not) cause damage from minor to catastrophic. Depending on the amount of water in the intake and engine, damage may occur to pistons, connecting rods, glow plugs, injectors, head gaskets, etc. due to hydraulic lock. There is also risk of starter and electrical system damage from repeated start attempts against a locked engine. You will need to choose:
Service the car (preferred) , or
Attempt to start the engine and get where you are going (risky)
The best solution is to clear the intake and engine of water and ice before starting. However, it seems the engines are often able to pass melt water with undetectable or no damage. The preferred actions are:
Option 1: If under 36k warranty period, have the car towed to a VW dealer by VWoA to have the water and ice drained out and problem documented for installation of Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 Frozen Charge Air Cooler. Dealers typically will require this hands-on service and documentation to gain required approval from VWoA for installation of the IC TSB under warranty.
Option 2: Elevate the front of the car on jackstands, remove belly pan and lower IC outlet charge hose, remove water and ice from assembly. Reassemble and drive. This option will not be convenient for a typical owner in most typical situations, given need for jacks, stands, tools, light, etc. plus safe environment and time to complete the repair.
Option 3: Have vehicle towed to appropriate repair facility for removal of water and ice from the IC assembly

Indy,
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863
Have you checked out this thread? Maybe some insight for a possible issue.

06bluebeetletdi · Jan 31, 2019

ToBiN said:
Indy,
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863
Have you checked out this thread? Maybe some insight for a possible issue.

I thought that was a gen 1 issue (been there, done that with my ‘13 beetle - had ot towed under cpo warranty in jan 16). My 2014 passat and 2013 bug have been fine in 5* - 100* temperature. I have remote started the passat 3-4 times at 15-20* over the last couple weeks, no issues at all.

jrm · Jan 31, 2019

calimustang said:
*coughs* what? Your MPG is horrible. I just had my Passat alignment done today and drove her to home from stealership.... made 51 mpg with few stops.... before alignment it struggled to make 47 mpg on highway. Its mostly flat roads here in central Florida.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MPG falls down to lower 40's in cold weather, post injection required to keep that emission system nice and hot. Can see it on any scanguage or torque app, monitor EGT1 and on a flat road in warm temps your running in the 700's getting 50mpg at 60 MPH but if the outside temp drops down to say 20F suddenly the EGT's soar to 1100F and your MPG dips to 40 something same road, same speed

It pretty much throws it into regeneration Until that DPF comes up to a magical number

TheGrove · Feb 1, 2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863
What to Do - Frozen IC happened to me!
If the car won't start after one attempt, or stumbles and dies after an initial attempt, ***STOP!*** You have some decision making to do...

Further attempts to start the engine may (or may not) cause damage from minor to catastrophic. Depending on the amount of water in the intake and engine, damage may occur to pistons, connecting rods, glow plugs, injectors, head gaskets, etc. due to hydraulic lock. There is also risk of starter and electrical system damage from repeated start attempts against a locked engine. You will need to choose:
Service the car (preferred) , or
Attempt to start the engine and get where you are going (risky)
The best solution is to clear the intake and engine of water and ice before starting. However, it seems the engines are often able to pass melt water with undetectable or no damage. The preferred actions are:
Option 1: If under 36k warranty period, have the car towed to a VW dealer by VWoA to have the water and ice drained out and problem documented for installation of Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 Frozen Charge Air Cooler. Dealers typically will require this hands-on service and documentation to gain required approval from VWoA for installation of the IC TSB under warranty.
Option 2: Elevate the front of the car on jackstands, remove belly pan and lower IC outlet charge hose, remove water and ice from assembly. Reassemble and drive. This option will not be convenient for a typical owner in most typical situations, given need for jacks, stands, tools, light, etc. plus safe environment and time to complete the repair.
Option 3: Have vehicle towed to appropriate repair facility for removal of water and ice from the IC assembly

ToBiN said:
Indy,
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863
Have you checked out this thread? Maybe some insight for a possible issue.

As has been stated many times before in this forum, this is not an issue with 2012+ Passat's. The Passat doesn't use an air-cooled intercoooler but is water cooled. This along with other design changes eliminated the frozen intercooler problems.

calimustang · Feb 1, 2019

jrm said:
MPG falls down to lower 40's in cold weather, post injection required to keep that emission system nice and hot. Can see it on any scanguage or torque app, monitor EGT1 and on a flat road in warm temps your running in the 700's getting 50mpg at 60 MPH but if the outside temp drops down to say 20F suddenly the EGT's soar to 1100F and your MPG dips to 40 something same road, same speed It pretty much throws it into regeneration Until that DPF comes up to a magical number

Oh yes, of course I am already aware of Winter diesel fuel changes between Summer diesel fuel and we live in Central FL so I doubt we have winter fuel ever around here but I can be wrong. I also almost never look at EGT but I should have. Anyway wow I never see anything under 35 mpg of any 3 CR diesel vehicles I have owned/owns. 2011 JSW TDI (gone to buy back on July 6th via flatbed tow truck which she never needed a tow for whole service life with nearly 300k miles, she never have under 42 mpg), 2015 Passat TDI averaged 47 with bad alignment that I never knew for few months after purchasing and alignment became noticeable after our trip to Michigan.... you know how the roads are up there, just had alignment done yesterday, became 50 plus all the way. In city she has been making 28-30, Girlfriend just told me. Now for my 2014 JSW TDI, on stage 1 fix..... I am not a fan of this JSW because of stage 1 fix. She averaged on highway around 39 mpg since the purchase on Sept 2018. Struggled to go 40+.

makes me miss 2011 JSW a lot more. She always fired up quickly, 2014 JSW isn’t great at many things. Might have to mod her and lose warranty. Wait until DSG whine is taken care of then go from there.

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roni024 · Feb 1, 2019

My 2015 push-to-start took 2-3 seconds from brake and button press this frigid morning (0degF). I didn't notice any unusual stumbling, although my DSG didn't like the cold very much (slipping gear during the first mile or two).

What's the consensus here on cold starts: should we push the button without brakes to cycle the plugs and then re-push with brakes to start? Or, just step on the brake, push the button, and let the car do its thing?

joshuafail · Feb 1, 2019

Springfield, MO here. Down to 9 day before yesterday, wind chill way colder. Had to park outside the night before.

Total non-event. Remote started, fired right up, cabin was cool (instead of frigid) about 10 minutes later. Has zero giddyup though, but that was likely due to the overnight cold soak, winter fuel and sub-freezing temps.

251 · Feb 6, 2019

No big deal here on my 2015 DSG. Push 'Start' button, wait then push button again and it fired right up in -24 F temps. Ran smoothly and took it easy until it warmed up which did take longer than usual which is to be expected given the frigid temps.

Got 42 mpg hand calculated on that tank thru all the snow and sub-zero temps too - trip computer reported 43 mpg average.

My worry was how the DSG would operate but it was fine. On my (now bought back) 2014 Passat TDI it would not shift out of first (no problem starting the engine) until the temps warmed up so I had to use another (gas) vehicle for a couple of days.

The 2015 is definitely improved over the 2014 for how it starts in cold weather as others have also pointed out.

jrm · Feb 6, 2019

Just got temps in the teens for the first time with my 2015 on stage 1 fix.... it goes into a fake regen to keep thing warm, everywhere- 950 RPM idle with fans running EGT1 sitting around 1200 Turning the HVAC onto high seems to trigger this

nicklockard · Feb 6, 2019

Not related to your cold snap, but five weeksends ago I took my wife on a road trip to Albuquerque, NM., starting from our home in Phoenix. We got in late on a Friday night. The following morning it was in the low teens. Between the cold temps and high altitude, the 335d did turn on glow plugs for 3 seconds. Starting was a touch rougher than I'm used to, but it idled fine and got up to temps normally. That's the first time I've seen this car's gp's come on!

tikal · Dec 5, 2022

Planning to go later in December 2022 to SW Colorado area with new to me 2015 Passat SE. I most likely refuel in Amarillo so I am expecting to have winterized D2 and no need to add additives for the cold.

It would be a different story with my 2004 Passat which it struggled in past trips in Colorado and temperatures around 7 F.

740GLE · Dec 6, 2022

jrm said:
Just got temps in the teens for the first time with my 2015 on stage 1 fix.... it goes into a fake regen to keep thing warm, everywhere- 950 RPM idle with fans running EGT1 sitting around 1200 Turning the HVAC onto high seems to trigger this

It maybe the electric grid heater loading up the alternator. my old CJAA would high idle when the coolant was low and the grid heater was trying to warm up the cabin.

Also if it needs to do a regen, as you saw, it can really dump fuel and heat up those EGTs and start a regen fast, I noticed a many regens happen on an almost bone cold block, only 2-5 min after starting.

Shawn67 · Dec 6, 2022

On a cold engine the EA288 definitely burns extra fuel for a little bit of time. Somewhat different then a regen though as the fuel is burned in the cylinders to generate extra heat to warm up the oxidizing catalytic converter and the DPF quicker.

On a regen cycle the extra fuel is injected much later in the cycle and it doesn't burn in the cylinder but instead passes to the cat and burns there to generate the heat for the DPF.

Extream Cold Start & Running observations, Add your comments!

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