mobe
Veteran Member
http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums/thread/7374.aspx
The Diesel Secret MSDS is here:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee.../4511077101/p/1
includes this, supposedly: "DSE additive Material Safety Data Sheet
General Synonyms: dimethylbenzene, xylol
Molecular formula: C6H4(CH3)2 This is a mixture of the three xylenes, m-xylene (CAS 108-38-3), o-xylene (CAS 95-47-6) and p-xylene (CAS106-42-3), and often also contains ethyl bezene (CAS 100-41-4)." also posted at that thread is an explanation of what they tell you to buy, more or less: a (questionable) SVO filtration system (they claim a Goldenrod will remove water apparently which I think is not accepted as true generally by experienced SVO'ers) and some household water filters for filtration (Dana Linscott has in the past posted some good reasons not to rely on pumping oil through those).
The MSDS for the 'additive' is available through their site. Apparently it's $13 plus $10 shipping, per each 12 oz bottle, which isn't a cheap habit when you add it to $3/gallon gasoline and diesel or kerosene and an additional cetane booster additive. You're supposed to mix the dimethylbenzene additive with filtered WVO and a lot of gasoline and kerosene and some cetane boost additive for good measure. In a 'Wal-Mart garbage can'. Just remember, safety first!
There have been people using blends of vegoil and diesel or gasoline ("thinning"), but there are cautions and problems with this approach. There have been very mixed results in the US with blends because both used vegoil and diesel seem to vary a lot and solid material sometimes seems to come out of solution (not known whether this is WVO-related or diesel-related).
Perhaps in Europe they're buying new SVO and blending it with petroleum thinners, which I can see being an easier blend to maintain than some of the WVO we collect here. The Bio-power people (also not very well regarded in the SVO / biodiesel world) mix up their magic potion and let the stuff sit for several weeks to allow waxy stuff to fall out, which seems like a different practice than the Diesel Secret shortcut promotes. Cold weather is a big issue with blends as well.
One (semi-critical) Infopop discussion forum thread on blends is here: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee...51/m/1571038201 ,
both pros and cons are somewhat discussed.
I think Tilly did some viscosity tests at one point at the infopop forum, that showed that it's really difficult to get the viscosity of cold WVO blended with petroleum products to be anywhere near the viscosity of diesel, which means that some people's injectors can end up spraying poor spray pattern, which can eventually lead to coking of injectors, which leads to more poor spray pattern, which can lead to engine damage (one form of which is polymerised engine oil- your lube oil becomes a rock and your engine components seize) as has been noted in dozens or hundreds of scientific studies in the past few decades. I've actually seen this happen to three different users- two SVO, one biodiesel with poor engine maintenance and possible fuel quality problems. Some engines and fuel systems are more sensitive to this than others , apparently.
For more information on how this happens please see the University of Idaho summary of some of the old 'cold SVO' studies, some of which involved blends of SVO and diesel:
http://www.uidaho.edu/bae/biodiesel/rawoils.html (follow the link for the summarise of individual studies and what kind of damage resulted)
Of course the emissions of a mixture like this aren't known either but are probably quite a bit worse than if you were to do SVO right ('heated') or to use biodiesel, though emissions isnt' the marketing angle they're using.
The worst part of this Diesel Secret snake oil phenomenon is that they're marketing (via Google AdWords) very heavily and are attracting people who are completely new to biofuels and are not going to be able to get the hand-holding and support that blenders who participate in the SVO forums will get. The response in the SVO/biodiesel world has been extremely sceptical, and at TDI Club forums biodiesel section, there is even some concern that some of the recent discussion has been started by the DSE company's own 'shills' posing as legitimate posters. This seems to be a reasonable fear.
So... be afraid... be very afraid.
The Diesel Secret MSDS is here:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee.../4511077101/p/1
includes this, supposedly: "DSE additive Material Safety Data Sheet
General Synonyms: dimethylbenzene, xylol
Molecular formula: C6H4(CH3)2 This is a mixture of the three xylenes, m-xylene (CAS 108-38-3), o-xylene (CAS 95-47-6) and p-xylene (CAS106-42-3), and often also contains ethyl bezene (CAS 100-41-4)." also posted at that thread is an explanation of what they tell you to buy, more or less: a (questionable) SVO filtration system (they claim a Goldenrod will remove water apparently which I think is not accepted as true generally by experienced SVO'ers) and some household water filters for filtration (Dana Linscott has in the past posted some good reasons not to rely on pumping oil through those).
The MSDS for the 'additive' is available through their site. Apparently it's $13 plus $10 shipping, per each 12 oz bottle, which isn't a cheap habit when you add it to $3/gallon gasoline and diesel or kerosene and an additional cetane booster additive. You're supposed to mix the dimethylbenzene additive with filtered WVO and a lot of gasoline and kerosene and some cetane boost additive for good measure. In a 'Wal-Mart garbage can'. Just remember, safety first!
There have been people using blends of vegoil and diesel or gasoline ("thinning"), but there are cautions and problems with this approach. There have been very mixed results in the US with blends because both used vegoil and diesel seem to vary a lot and solid material sometimes seems to come out of solution (not known whether this is WVO-related or diesel-related).
Perhaps in Europe they're buying new SVO and blending it with petroleum thinners, which I can see being an easier blend to maintain than some of the WVO we collect here. The Bio-power people (also not very well regarded in the SVO / biodiesel world) mix up their magic potion and let the stuff sit for several weeks to allow waxy stuff to fall out, which seems like a different practice than the Diesel Secret shortcut promotes. Cold weather is a big issue with blends as well.
One (semi-critical) Infopop discussion forum thread on blends is here: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee...51/m/1571038201 ,
both pros and cons are somewhat discussed.
I think Tilly did some viscosity tests at one point at the infopop forum, that showed that it's really difficult to get the viscosity of cold WVO blended with petroleum products to be anywhere near the viscosity of diesel, which means that some people's injectors can end up spraying poor spray pattern, which can eventually lead to coking of injectors, which leads to more poor spray pattern, which can lead to engine damage (one form of which is polymerised engine oil- your lube oil becomes a rock and your engine components seize) as has been noted in dozens or hundreds of scientific studies in the past few decades. I've actually seen this happen to three different users- two SVO, one biodiesel with poor engine maintenance and possible fuel quality problems. Some engines and fuel systems are more sensitive to this than others , apparently.
For more information on how this happens please see the University of Idaho summary of some of the old 'cold SVO' studies, some of which involved blends of SVO and diesel:
http://www.uidaho.edu/bae/biodiesel/rawoils.html (follow the link for the summarise of individual studies and what kind of damage resulted)
Of course the emissions of a mixture like this aren't known either but are probably quite a bit worse than if you were to do SVO right ('heated') or to use biodiesel, though emissions isnt' the marketing angle they're using.
The worst part of this Diesel Secret snake oil phenomenon is that they're marketing (via Google AdWords) very heavily and are attracting people who are completely new to biofuels and are not going to be able to get the hand-holding and support that blenders who participate in the SVO forums will get. The response in the SVO/biodiesel world has been extremely sceptical, and at TDI Club forums biodiesel section, there is even some concern that some of the recent discussion has been started by the DSE company's own 'shills' posing as legitimate posters. This seems to be a reasonable fear.
So... be afraid... be very afraid.
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