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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old September 9th, 2016, 05:59   #1
Scott02
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Default Question - Opt for fix, what if no fix, how to get "fix money"?

Sorting through all the zillion threads to find a specific answer is beginning to feel almost life ending...

I love my 2011 JSW DSG Pano. I would love to keep it as-is (DSG tune only), but someone (VW) is trying to give me some money to make some emissions changes to it.

Thus, my question is, if they give me the "fix money" when I go in to my local dealership to have the fix done...

What if they never agree to a hardware-addition and/or software fix?
What if they just grandfather the 09-14's in?

When or how would we receive the fix money?

Thanks in advance!
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Old September 9th, 2016, 06:05   #2
austintg
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This isn't for sure, because no one knows, but when the judge made it clear we were due separate compensation of the fix or buyback, they should be able to pay us the $5,100 minimum at any time, forfeiting our right to the buyback. They would benefit financially from doing this because they would have an idea of how many will not take the buyback and prevents us from changing our minds afterward.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 06:10   #3
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the fix money is to entice people to get the fix, which means fewer cars with higher than required NOx. Giving restitution without the fix would be counter-productive.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 06:15   #4
austintg
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Actually it isn't to entice us. It is due us because of the settlement. It happens to work as an enticement, but the judge did not say this was a way to get people in the door in the court case.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 06:22   #5
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CARB and EPA's goal in this settlement is to get the cars fixed or taken off the road. Paying you $5100 without getting your car fixed, or selling it back, would do nothing to get non complying cars off the road.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 06:22   #6
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If no "fix" it turns into a buyback..... honestly doubtful that would happen....
But they only must meet a Reduction in pollution to an AGREEED level....not a perfect fix.
Shortfalls are made up with them buying pollution credits by doing things like subsidizing the replacement of older city busses and airport equipment....provides an offset.
The economics of them wanting the fix to be as good as possible is understandable....it lowers their costs.
Yes...gen1 cars (non DEF) will be a challenge, but medium duty truck engines do it with a HUGE LNT trap...no reason to believe they can't get to the specified level with some engineering.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 06:54   #7
DanB36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott02 View Post
When or how would we receive the fix money?
You receive the fix money only once your car is fixed. No fix, no fix money. If no fix is approved, the only way you get paid out of this settlement is to sell the car back.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 06:59   #8
grawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintg View Post
Actually it isn't to entice us. It is due us because of the settlement. It happens to work as an enticement, but the judge did not say this was a way to get people in the door in the court case.
The judge may not have said it in so many words, but it's pretty clear the reason it's tied to a fix is that it's there to entice people to get the fix, if they're keeping the car. That's why there's no money for "keep as is".
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Old September 9th, 2016, 07:06   #9
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Originally Posted by DanB36 View Post
You receive the fix money only once your car is fixed. No fix, no fix money. If no fix is approved, the only way you get paid out of this settlement is to sell the car back.


Where does it say this? Honestly just curious! I seriously don't claim to know all about what is happening, just my 2 cents from what I've read and heard.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 07:07   #10
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Originally Posted by DanB36 View Post
You receive the fix money only once your car is fixed. No fix, no fix money. If no fix is approved, the only way you get paid out of this settlement is to sell the car back.
This is my fear. I dont want to sell the car back. Selling the car back isn't near the same money in my pocket as taking the fix and money.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 07:09   #11
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Originally Posted by grawk View Post
The judge may not have said it in so many words, but it's pretty clear the reason it's tied to a fix is that it's there to entice people to get the fix, if they're keeping the car. That's why there's no money for "keep as is".
I completely agree that if "I" choose to keep it as is, I get no money.

My question is, what if VW/EPA chooses that there is no fix, not "me".
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Old September 9th, 2016, 07:17   #12
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Originally Posted by grawk View Post
The judge may not have said it in so many words, but ...
Maybe, but this all being a legal proceedings if "it's not stated in words" - as in the written word and part of the court record - it just doesn't matter what people "think" was meant.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 07:17   #13
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The problem is, you have a sense of entitlement to the money, even if you don't sell back, and even if your car cannot be fixed.

The settlement has multiple purposes. The principal one, from the Government's point of view, is to get polluting cars fixed or off the road. If there is no fix, and you get no money because you refuse to sell, then you are not helping in the effort to get polluting cars off the road. So you get no payment, notwithstanding your intention to get a fix.

As is often said, the road to H___ is paved with good intentions.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 07:22   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintg View Post
Where does it say this? Honestly just curious! I seriously don't claim to know all about what is happening, just my 2 cents from what I've read and heard.
FTC Consent Order, page 23:
Quote:
Upon submission of an Eligible Owner’s or Eligible Lessee’s complete and valid claim application pursuant to Section XIII and completion of an Approved Emissions Modification by a Volkswagen Dealer (or other entity authorized by Defendant), Defendant shall pay the amounts required by Subsections B through E.
(emphasis added)

They only have to pay the "fix" money once the fix is completed.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 08:23   #15
grawk
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Originally Posted by turboBear View Post
Maybe, but this all being a legal proceedings if "it's not stated in words" - as in the written word and part of the court record - it just doesn't matter what people "think" was meant.
The motivation isn't stated. The conditions for receiving money are clearly spelled out. Get the fix, sell the car, or meet one of the few narrow edge conditions. Opting for the fix and then not getting it means no cash for you.
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