Redo head wearables when doing headgasket change?

I'm coming to the sad realization that I will need to redo my head gasket.

Is it worth the extra cost to go ahead and replace lifters, valve stem seals, valves while it's off? I'd hate to get the whole job done and then have a valve or something go wrong.

Anyone want to assist in a headgasket in the midwest?

why do you conclude you need a head gasket?

I don't think that it automatically warrants a head rebuild when its off, unless inspection (look for signs of contact with pistons, cam lobe wear, lifter damage) shows otherwise.

BTW, you do know we're having another GTG at Marty's Mem day weekend, right? I bet we can knock out a head gasket replacement that day

when i pulled my AHU head last year, at 220,000kms (140,000 miles) the valve guides were completely worn, you could move the valves around around 3mm each way or more.

valve guides means reseating. reseating means might as well get new seals, check the springs, etc.

tditom said:

why do you conclude you need a head gasket?

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Coolant over pressuring. Coolant with an oily/murky look. Starting is getting harder (even with warmer temps). Excess smoke on startup.

I don't think that it automatically warrants a head rebuild when its off, unless inspection (look for signs of contact with pistons, cam lobe wear, lifter damage) shows otherwise.

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The only problem is I'd have to do a pre-buy. What I can't afford is to not buy stuff, get the head off and the realize my sleeves are worn or I'll need a valve.

tditom said:

BTW, you do know we're having another GTG at Marty's Mem day weekend, right? I bet we can knock out a head gasket replacement that day

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I saw that. I definitely want to do it with someone and I'd hate to buy all the over head tools. I just wonder, can I hold on for another 2 months? I'd hate even more to crack or warp the head. I've gone skiing the past 2 weeknds, with 6 hours of driving I need to add about 4-5 cups of mix. If the experts think that 2 months with moderate driving (I shouldn't put more than 5-6k on it) won't worsen it anymore, I'm down for Marty's.

make sure its not the oil cooler. These have been known to leak oil into the coolant. Any coolant showing up in your oil?

Or the EGR cooler, if so fitted...

tditom said:

make sure its not the oil cooler. These have been known to leak oil into the coolant. Any coolant showing up in your oil?

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No coolant in the oil. And it's not to bad oil in the coolant. It's just murky and darker. The pressure is the main give away, plus when I fill it up all the way to the top, there are tiny bubbles that come through the return line.

DPM said:

Or the EGR cooler, if so fitted...

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You mean this paperweight?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-...015QQitemZ250090914206QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Found that on eBay. Anyone have any comments:
1) Good Feedback
2) Long history
3) 1/2 the reviews are in german so I'd think that he actually has ties to germany.

I figure if I'm going to pull it, a new head can't be a bad thing. And if my current head is in good shape (Not warped) I can still get some money out of it.

Would you just plan on using your old cam, bearings, valves? Don't the valves sealing face need to be lapped to match the new seats, or is that the old fashioned way of doing it?

It sounds like alot of work, and obviously the expenses probably wouldn't be limited to just a replacement head. Certainly your car would be out of commission for awhile. How much downtime can you tolerate?

tditom said:

Would you just plan on using your old cam, bearings, valves? Don't the valves sealing face need to be lapped to match the new seats, or is that the old fashioned way of doing it?

It sounds like alot of work, and obviously the expenses probably wouldn't be limited to just a replacement head. Certainly your car would be out of commission for awhile. How much downtime can you tolerate?

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I don't know. You tell me

I plan on reusing the Cam if possible (Unless cams go bad?). But new valves, guides, stem seals, cam seals and bearings. This way I have a head 'almost ready'. Then I just swap it with minimal down time.

If valves don't wear and heads don't wear. Maybe I can just get away with valve guides and stem seals and lifters. My only concern is the possibility of a warped head.

If I knew what I was doing I wouldn't be posting here

Maybe we should step back a minute-
Do you know if the head has ever been pulled before? How many miles on the car?

You may need only a head gasket. So if you can live with the car being out of service for a week, why not pull the head and inspect it on a Sat. Post photos to this thread and ask advice if no one is available to be on hand to help you.

(the following assumes you have the tools necessary and a suitable work area, considering the current weather conditions)

Have the replacement gaskets in hand. If the head is not warped, there are no visible cracks, the valves, lifters and cam look good, and you can see where the original head gasket is breached, then just install the new head gasket (I believe you need new head bolts too). You're back on the road by the end of the weekend.

If the head is bad, or needs extensive work, then order the replacement parts that Sat>Mon. They are in your hand by Friday, and you rebuild the head and install it by Sun night. You're back on the road in 8 days max.

Sounds good on the screen, right?

tditom said:

Maybe we should step back a minute-
Do you know if the head has ever been pulled before? How many miles on the car?

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Never pulled to my knowledge. The PO kept somewhat decent records, but I didn't see any pulling of the head.

185k.

tditom said:

You may need only a head gasket. So if you can live with the car being out of service for a week, why not pull the head and inspect it on a Sat. Post photos to this thread and ask advice if no one is available to be on hand to help you.

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Except... I can't. Maybe this summer when I can ride my bike to work, I just don't want to wait that long. (Because then I will warp the head)

Have the replacement gaskets in hand. If the head is not warped, there are no visible cracks, the valves, lifters and cam look good, and you can see where the original head gasket is breached, then just install the new head gasket (I believe you need new head bolts too). You're back on the road by the end of the weekend.

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I was thinking from the other angle. I get a short head ready (everything other than cam). I pull off the old one. If it's good. I sell it as a near complete head. I'm sure a few people around here could use one. If it's bad. Well I needed a new one anyway.

If the head is bad, or needs extensive work, then order the replacement parts that Sat>Mon. They are in your hand by Friday, and you rebuild the head and install it by Sun night. You're back on the road in 8 days max.

Sounds good on the screen, right?

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Well, even worse is 'home' is Peoria, IL. My parents just live around Fort Wayne. I was planning on hitting up the GTG then going home.

Maybe I'll try to get this done sooner, then the GTG can be play time with E-codes and fogs

Parts & Tools List

Bumpity Uppity.

Is there anything else anyone can think of before I order?

As easy as the head is to pull I wouldn't do the rest unless you have an indication of failure .

A B4 head gasket is an easy job , a couple of hours of work at best so if you are sure the gasket is gone just replace it and leave the other parts be .

rotarykid said:

As easy as the head is to pull I wouldn't do the rest unless you have an indication of failure .

A B4 head gasket is an easy job , a couple of hours of work at best so if you are sure the gasket is gone just replace it and leave the other parts be .

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99.9% of gasket failure. I'm over pressuring and I have oil in the coolant. Oilhammer (on #tdiclubchat) says that there is a good possibility of a warped head since the head gaskets don't just 'blow' on their own. I had an over heat situation once. Plus with 200k on the car, I've heard from other vets that there is a good possibility that valve stem seals, lifters, etc could use a refresh.

While all the coolant is out (since this is 'lifetime' coolant) I'd like to take the time to put on a new thermostat and stuff so that I don't overheat my new head.

darkscout said:

99.9% of gasket failure. I'm over pressuring and I have oil in the coolant. Oilhammer (on #tdiclubchat) says that there is a good possibility of a warped head since the head gaskets don't just 'blow' on their own. I had an over heat situation once. Plus with 200k on the car, I've heard from other vets that there is a good possibility that valve stem seals, lifters, etc could use a refresh.

While all the coolant is out (since this is 'lifetime' coolant) I'd like to take the time to put on a new thermostat and stuff so that I don't overheat my new head.

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Head gaskets in my experience blow from over pressure spikes from the turbo . And are quite common in the 1Z engine if the mechanical timing is set too early .

iF an over pressure caused the gasket failure the head may be perectly ok to just replace only the gasket & stretch bolts . Done this many times without issue .

In fact the head gasket can be replaced without taking the head all the way out in a pinch . Just lift the head up wipe off the head & block then slide a new gasket back into place .

Dave: How many times have you replaced a head gasket on your B4 sedan?
Just curious if La Veta and Wolf Creek pass(es) got you practicing again... !

You sure that the timing(your B4) is not too far advanced?

I am thinking that I may have to replace the head/valves/seals/guide , if the cam followers do not do the "fix" for my B4.

John

bikeprof said:

Dave: How many times have you replaced a head gasket on your B4 sedan?
Just curious if La Veta and Wolf Creek pass(es) got you practicing again... !

You sure that the timing(your B4) is not too far advanced?

I am thinking that I may have to replace the head/valves/seals/guide , if the cam followers do not do the "fix" for my B4.

John

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I wouldn't want to make that drive too many times without some serious de-tuning .

Has your head gasket let go ???

I ended up getting a little over 55 mpgs on the drive down there & back , not bad with all that going up & down in elevation .

The real head gasket blower drive is driving up & down the short spaced steep hills you drive on while crossing Missouri & Iowa @ high speed with the Cruise Control on .

The turbo really slams the boost into the engine at the bottom of those hills with a little break at the top of the hill . A break in boost that isn't long enough to allow for the needed cooling . After a few hundred cycles of this the head gasket can just let go from the heat & stress .

Hmmmmm.

I don't know?
Jeff(RC chip) told me NOT to use the Variant until I repaired the problem.
(hard starts, backfiring a little and hesitates until warm, no power like regularly it has/had after ~ 2.750 rpm's).

I think it may be the cam followers that may have not been changed in how many miles...?(don't know if the PO ever did this , and thus..., valves not in time ).
is it difficult to R&R the cam followers? I will also change the water pump and the TB since I am there!(tensioner, etc. was done last TB change ~ 35K ago)

Thanks for any info.: John

Short answer to cam follower replacement - nope, not hard.
Gotta remove the cam to do so but if you are doing the other stuff ....
The last set of lifters I got for a 1Z were the lighter "H" version if you are interested.

A magnet _may_ help pull them out of their recess if you have trouble.

robert

bikeprof said:

Hmmmmm.

I don't know?
Jeff(RC chip) told me NOT to use the Variant until I repaired the problem.
(hard starts, backfiring a little and hesitates until warm, no power like regularly it has/had after ~ 2.750 rpm's).

I think it may be the cam followers that may have not been changed in how many miles...?(don't know if the PO ever did this , and thus..., valves not in time ).
is it difficult to R&R the cam followers? I will also change the water pump and the TB since I am there!(tensioner, etc. was done last TB change ~ 35K ago)

Thanks for any info.: John

Click to expand...

rjr311 said:

Short answer to cam follower replacement - nope, not hard.
Gotta remove the cam to do so but if you are doing the other stuff ....
The last set of lifters I got for a 1Z were the lighter "H" version if you are interested.

A magnet _may_ help pull them out of their recess if you have trouble.

robert

Click to expand...

I've never had to replace followers but I have replaced seals on many . A good strong magnet is all that is required to pull thm out .

To do the seals you need the spring compressor tools & the little mushroom looking tool to reinstall them . I have them by the way , if it is still running call me & bring it by and we can do the job . And you can help me recoup a little of the money I put into these tools .

rotarykid: PM is going out to you...