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TDIClub and TDIClub Forum News, Issues, Problems and Suggestions This is the place for updates on the website and forums. This is also the spot for forum questions, comments, ideas, gripes, requests, etc. This forum is NOT for posting problems about your car. Non-topic posts will be moved or removed.

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Old September 2nd, 2015, 07:08   #1
cevans
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Default What is the policy regarding emissions modifications?

A few years back there was a strict "no emissions modification" rule where mods would shut down new threads that talked about DPF deletes and the like. Now, though, there are dozens of threads and thousands of posts about it. I have been avoiding these discussions to keep with forum rules, but if the rules are different now I'd like to take part.

Has this rule been changed?
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 09:00   #2
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A sticky in the Emissions folder:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=396162

Scott
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 21:38   #3
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Good point Corey, but always keep in mind, these are living breathing forums.

Rules are rules, but enforcement is subject to the popular will and free speech. As it should be. Democracy, baby!!!

the key is being savvy enough to understand when there has been a de facto status change and go with the flow. [/sarcasm]

But seriously, I think I know what you are getting at.

If you ask me the vendor abuse and exploitation is out of hand. But I digress.

But then here's an interesting idea.... maybe DPF delete project threads and such should be given automatic sticky status. Make them easier to find.

Only requirement for "sticky" is they must show you tube videos of the "clean diesel" car driving down the road spewing smoke, along with details/contact info of where to get it installed and who to talk to. Video must also contain a walkaround of the car showing all the stuff that was removed, then the removed stuff lying in a pile on the floor of the shop along with the lack of a check engine light proving the final victory over evil.
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 22:54   #4
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because every one knows the best way to get people to start talking about something is to tell them they can't LOL
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 07:43   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth TDI View Post
A sticky in the Emissions folder:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=396162

Scott
Well, thats from 2013. I clearly don't read stickies!

Thanks Scott.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 09:50   #6
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While I'm clearly a "nobody" I get the feeling that emissions modifications are just not "sanctioned" by TDIClub. By this, I feel that members can discuss emissions modifications and how to go about modifying such systems but TDIClub does not want to be held liable for an individuals actions regarding their modification. I'm really curious as to what the real "stance" of TDIClub is on them.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 10:17   #7
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Double post somehow...
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 10:23   #8
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I think "the club" has no official stance, one way or the other. It was decided some time ago that we should allow the discussion in an open format, and taking into account any disclaimers that may or may not be given as sort of a given.

There have been modifications that change the emissions compliance of these cars since before this internet based club was formed. No different than any other automotive enthusiast club, save maybe for the Prius Brigade.

However I think we as a community should be at least trying to understand how these things work before jumping to any conclusion that one MUST modify their car, often brand new ones, to make them functional. Which simply is not true.

Then the legal side of things, which a lot of people cannot seem to grasp. Tampering with emissions control equipment on your car, your lawnmower, your chainsaw, or whatever, is indeed against Federal law. It is stated very clearly in every single owner's manual of every single car made and sold in the USA. I am not saying myself one way or the other if I agree with this or not, that is not relevant. What is relevant is admitting you are doing it, and being OK with that. It has nothing to do with "oh, *they* don't check emissions here". Well, that's fine, but if that vehicle was sold here, it HAD to be certified for sale here, and part of that certification is that it meets whatever standards were in effect at that time.

In one way, you can look at it like tags on a mattress. Do not remove under penalty of law. Does anyone, anywhere, know of anyone that got their mattress tags checked, let alone was hit with a penalty for doing so? Didn't think so. But the other way is, if some guy is doing something in the privacy of his own home or garage, and there is no mechanism in place to check for this type of thing.... then he is going to get away with it. But if a business is doing this sort of thing, it can be a very different story. Our shop does not do modifications like that, and even if we did, you'd never hear me talk about it here.

Now my own thought about it, at least on the 2009+ TDIs, is kind of the same way I feel about artificially low Interstate speed limits. Most people speed. You can usually sail right past a police officer doing 5 or even 10 MPH over, along with the vast majority of everyone else cruising along with you on the road, and not be stopped. So if the law is so easy to circumvent, and there is little to no enforcement, then why is it even there in the first place???

Unfortunately, we (the people) have legislated our way into a spot where the laws that are on the books often don't balance the whole picture. So if modern diesel emissions compliance was easier, we'd not really have many people wanting to remove the stuff. But since it is so strict, the components must be placed on the engines, and many are fragile and expensive. So they get taken off.

It is hard to argue with a guy who bought a new $50k truck for his construction business, and the truck gets 12 MPG, and randomly loses power when towing, or sets small shrubs on fire, and now wants to take the DPF and EGR systems off, retune the engine, and now gets 17 MPG doing the same work and has more power and doesn't worry about the fire department being called. (and yes, this has happened ).
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Old September 6th, 2015, 18:00   #9
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Perhaps the policy can be updated, to allow informed discussion on the illegal modifications in a dedicated area, similar to the performance thread, with the appropriate disclaimer perhaps as a header (or link in the header to detailed legal and other (public health?) info, rather than a sticky, and then free discussion of the pros, cons, challenges, and successes of whatever modification is desired, including how to get away with what.

and then keep the model pages and 101 for basic questions on how the cars operate from the factory, what maintenance is required, and discussion on diagnosis and repair.

it seems that many folks want to be proud of the changes, improvements and fixes they have done, and suggest others do the same. (with a different value set on the merits of performance, economy and emissions than VW and the governments have applied when new cars are approved for sale)

while others have different ideas, and just want to get the car fixed, or have questions answered.

it would be nice, whatever the result, to have an updated policy and let everyone know what it is. it really is a bit annoying to have a thread discussing any subject updated with a "you should get rid of all that crap" suggestion.

Perhaps a function similar to the "report post" button can be added which just points out the post is in the wrong area, to get a moderator's attention, move the post, and remind the poster of what the updated policy is.
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Old September 6th, 2015, 18:05   #10
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lol oilhammer. good post
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