Garrett VNT 17 vs Borg Warner S7

NewTdi · Mar 16, 2014

Hi all,
I am in the need to change my VNT 17 turbo and the options are either replacing it with another Garrett VNT17 or a BW S7. My car is slightly enhanced with PP520's, RC Stage 3 and 3 Bar map.
For those who have experience with the BW S7, could you please share your experiences? I have read that it does offer faster spooling compared to the VNT17. I drive with a mild foot but do give the car an Italian tune-up daily to make sure that the EGR stays clean.

LNXGUY · Mar 17, 2014

17/22

NewTdi · Mar 17, 2014

LNXGUY said:
17/22

17/22 is not an option due to budgetary restrictions, otherwise I would have gone big from the get go!

JFettig · Mar 17, 2014

Borg Warner doesn't make a turbo called "S7". The turbo sold as "S7" is a BV-39, which is from a 130hp engine. The VNT17 is from a 150hp engine, you tell me which is better.

NewTdi · Mar 17, 2014

JFettig said:
Borg Warner doesn't make a turbo called "S7". The turbo sold as "S7" is a BV-39, which is from a 130hp engine. The VNT17 is from a 150hp engine, you tell me which is better.

This shows my ignorance about turbos and the reason for my post. I cannot tell you which is better has I have not driven the BV39. I am not looking for max power but for reliability.

Thanks,

Andrew

andrewspearns · Mar 17, 2014

Sorry for going off-topic. What's the problem with the VNT17 on the car?

Ganoid · Mar 17, 2014

Not sure where the 7 came from but BorgWarner does have an "S" series.

"Select BorgWarner turbochargers employ BorgWarner “S” generation compressor wheels that incorporate extended tip technology. This compressor wheel design feature promotes greater airflow using a low inertia wheel that performs like a wheel of greater size and mass. Extended tip technology enables the user to have faster spool-up at lower engine speeds while providing the boost for the powerful top-end performance that most turbocharger enthusiast have come to desire."

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/aftermarket/airwerksPowerRange.aspx

The "S" series can be found many places in many sizes for different applications.

I too am looking to upgrade my turbo so I have been digging as well.

LNXGUY · Mar 17, 2014

Those 'S' series turbos are not BV-39s, lol.

Ganoid · Mar 17, 2014

One could also say a 17/22 does not exist because there are none in garrett's current catalog? I'm not supporting or condemning the "S7" or where it comes from it just seems like people are quick to beat a product down with out owning one. You can buy a 1749vc on ebay or here on the forums from a respected seller that will look exactly like a stock alh vnt15 turbo and is probably badged as such yet is not. I think the whole s7 debate is still in question personally and I just may gamble on one to satisfy my curiosity. I have read on here several times that you cannot replace the actuator on a BW turbo yet Darkside sells them? It would be really cool if all this information was easy to find and access but I have not found that to be the case. I can't even seem to find many compressor maps.

KERMA · Mar 17, 2014

Every time "S7" is mentioned on these forum pages, a flurry of innuendo and speculation follows. I hate to say it guys, but the best way to get good info about the S7 is still by calling kermatdi directly.

(LNXGUY and Jfettig, and others, as well meaning as they may be, can only offer speculation, innuendo, and hearsay at best, having no first hand experience themselves.)

Make no mistake: the VNT17 is a great turbo in its own right! But it may not be the correct turbo for you (although it may very well be) But call and we can help you decide. Forum info is very unreliable in this instance.

Thanks

JFettig · Mar 17, 2014

KERMA said:
....by calling kermatdi directly.

So Charlie, if they are not what everyone says they are, then what are they?

If there was something so great about them, lets see the proof.

A5INKY · Mar 17, 2014

To say that a company's experience with multiple lines leads to objectivity is laughable. Every business man will have their bias when it comes to their business. I prefer doing business with companies that offer their solutions, then respectfully sit back and let the consumer decide. For me FUD = no sale.

BlankThis · Mar 17, 2014

Garret VNT-17, tried, tested, and well known.

Seatman · Mar 17, 2014

According to myturbodiesels wiki the S7 is a borg warner from a european 150 engine

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/turbo-upgrade-guide-and-part-numbers-for-vw-and-audi-tdi-engine/

But that's all the info I have lol.

The thing with it though is is it tried and tested like the regular VNT17? I've only heard of it mentioned more recently but not what it's capabilities are or life span.

TDIMeister · Mar 17, 2014

Mr. NewTdi PM'ed me a few days before posting this thread. I guess my answer wasn't good enough. LOL.

NewTdi said:
do you have an opinion on the Garret VNT17 vs the Borg Warner 17 Turbo?

Vague questions beget vague answers. With all due respect, my guess is that Andrew already has the answer in his mind and is just looking for validation to it. He says he wants fast response and reliability, not ultimate power and furthermore admitted to budgetary constraints. Welp, a stock replacement is the best prescription for those criteria. Want something that will support a little more power but is as good or even better than stock for spool? Go for a GTC1446VZ or GTC1549VZ. The BV39 might be good, but I gave the most honest answer I could to his above-quoted question: I prefer Garrett but I have no educated or empirical reason for it. It's like some people prefer VW over Honda, Pepsi over Coke, cats over dogs. I'd choose a GTC1549 over a 17/22 and BW units any day.

Judson · Mar 18, 2014

You know businesses have the right to develop and keep trade secrets in order to compete and, you know, pay employees and stuff.

Everyone has the right to their opinion, but seriously, when one isn't certain, it makes their opinion worth much less. Such are the days of the Internet.

I don't blame Kerma in the slightest for defending his name, and I have never done business with the guy even once.

A5INKY · Mar 18, 2014

Legit "trade secrets" that offer a clear benefit are one thing. Imagined "trade secret" benefits that are coupled with a sales plan that includes actively debasing your competition is FUD marketing.

If the product is so great, show the world why then let the customer decide.

Judson · Mar 18, 2014

I've been following these threads, and I have read no evidence of the "debasing your competition" marketing.

What I do know is prior to this, and with the exception of this product, Kerma has an excellent reputation around here.

Until you KNOW, why not just let it be?

A5INKY · Mar 18, 2014

Judson said:
I've been following these threads, and I have read no evidence of the "debasing your competition" marketing.

What I do know is prior to this, and with the exception of this product, Kerma has an excellent reputation around here.

Until you KNOW, why not just let it be?

I think THIS speaks for itself.

Nash_TDI · Mar 18, 2014

A5INKY said:
I think THIS speaks for itself.

That was a good read, thanks!

LNXGUY · Mar 18, 2014

Stay Classy Kerma.

NewTdi · Mar 18, 2014

Such a debate has been stirred over asking feedback about turbo options! While the debate is great and I love the varied opinions, the life of my turbo is ticking away.
I will reach my decision on which way to go soon. Thank you all for your input.

Scott02 · Mar 18, 2014

A5INKY said:
I think THIS speaks for itself.

Wow. That's all.

keaton · Mar 18, 2014

NewTdi said:
This shows my ignorance about turbos and the reason for my post. I cannot tell you which is better has I have not driven the BV39. I am not looking for max power but for reliability.

Thanks,

Andrew

the BV39 is a sh|tty turbo... save the pennies and get a 17/22

BuzzKen · Mar 18, 2014

A5INKY said:
I think THIS speaks for itself.

I just learned something. I guess I don't make 3" stainless exhausts. Must be my imagination.

Edit: aaaaaaaaaand the editmaster has edited.

The way you conduct yourself doesn't upset me, I actually feel sad for you as a person.

KERMA · Mar 18, 2014

I think the only FUD and "debasing" going on here is by our competitors. But thanks for the website feedback.

Andrew, I'm sorry your simple question inspired this bad behavior. If you want more info about either turbo you know where to find us

A5INKY · Mar 18, 2014

KERMA said:
I think the only FUD and "debasing" going on here is by our competitors. But thanks for the website feedback...

LOL,

Judson · Mar 18, 2014

A5INKY said:
I think THIS speaks for itself.

What? Kerma boasting about his reputation and products? So? I've read worse. Nothing wrong about being young and confident. Hell, hang around any barracks in the military and you'll hear far worse.

Unless you have PROOF that they don't live up to their boasting, then I guess you have a point. Otherwise, being a competitor, you're just really making yourself look bad.

So, that's it. I'm done. I don't sell any products and don't have skin in the game either way.

jimbote · Mar 18, 2014

just go with a 17...forget the noisy 17/22...it'll drive you nuts with the "pseudosurge" noises and unnecessary racket...I ditched my 17/22 for stock then finally "reupgraded" to a vnt17 ...couldn't be happier ....the s7 while an attractive option still is just a borg turbo and not from a pd150 like the 17 truly is.... my dos pesos

don't spend all in one place!!

seanjohn2525 · Mar 20, 2014

Ive got an S7 and I love it. Sounds aggressive but not annoying and gives smooth, quick power.

Garrett VNT 17 vs Borg Warner S7

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