First fillup!

After 2 weeks, nearly 500 miles and a 1/4 tank of gas left,
I filled up with diesel for the first time. Not knowing what to expect, I kept the pump going slow, but around 11 gallons figured "this thing's gotta stop soon" and soon enough....a soft sllllllossssshhhhhh-ing sound. I look down and see the fuel pouring down the side of my new Jetta wagon Okay, NOW I see that diesel tanks are different than gasoline ones: there is no automatic shutoff on them! DOH! Lesson learned. Also, realize diesel fuel is hard to scrub off hands At least now I know what to expect for next time.

What? Sure, diesel pumps have automatic shut-offs. At least, every one of them I've seen does. Now, there are some that don't work! And, maybe they don't work as well in general because diesel is so much less volatile than gasoline (i.e. the nozzle doesn't detect the fumes). But it has nothing to do with the tank.

Honestly, I carry a pack of surgical gloves in the trunk for filling up sometimes. Not *all* the time, but sometimes like when I'm on a lunch break.

Mrkus,

Actually, the diesel pump I frequent works just like a gas pump. At high volume it shuts off, however, at low volume it doesn't. I have had this happen to me twice and both times the cause was the diesel pump was pumping slow like the fuel filter needed to be changed. You could by a box of the disposable latex gloves and keep in your trunk or fold up the paper towels and make a mitt when you pick up the pump nozzle to prevent "stinky hand". Good luck with your TDI!

Jerry

Odd, I've had the pump jump off once and get a few drops of diesel on me, but the auto shutoff worked. The backpressure just kicked the pump off.

I carry a bunch of latex gloves in the little pocket behind the drivers seat. That way, when I fill up, I just open the door, grab a glove, and am good to go. You're right, it's *hard* to get diesel smell off.

I went on a road trip once, I splashed some diesel on my shoes and pants. I had to go to Wal Mart and buy some new shoes and pants to wear until I could wash the ones I spilled the diesel on. I couldn't take the smell.

More to the point... The pump should have kicked off. Diesel pumps are not different than gas ones. Either the nozzle you chose needed some work or you were indeed pumping so slow that it didn't detect the backpressure. I had a pump 'burp' once and spew fuel. I got it off the car reasonably well but... the shoes were different story. Despite scuffing and wiping, my brake and clutch pedals were slippery little buggers 'till I got home and was able to clean things up properly.

You sometimes have to put it all the way in the filler neck for it to work properly.
Many gas stations do not mantain these nozzles as they should. I've done that before and probobly will again.
Unrelated: Mrkus, should this http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=520573&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&fpart=1 ever gel, we will expect to see you there

Hi there,

I had this happen to me once too. It was one of the wider-nozzle pumps, and for that reason, I didn't want to fill up too quickly (I was afraid it would overflow ), so I only gave it partial flow. And probably because of this, it overflowed!

When I brought it to the attention of the station manager, she basically accused me of wedging my "gas cap" in the handle to keep it turned on. Not that this should have made it overflow anyway, but I explained to her that I did no such thing and she seemed skeptical. Then I pointed out how my "gas cap" is attached to the car and wouldn't reach teh pump handle... ... she just got a sour look on her face and said "oh....".

But anyway, it could have been a bad nozzle, or the fact that it was a wide nozzle, or the fact that I used too slow of a flow (or any combination of the three), but either way, she could have been nicer about it.

I cleaned it up as best I could and stopped at a car wash up the road. Since I still had several miles ahead of me on this trip, I didn't worry about the tank being too full, but if this ever happens to you again in the future (especially in the winter), bear in mind that when the car cools, the fuel expands. This is why it's not a good idea to "top off" the tank if you're not going to burn off some fuel before reaching your destination. It could expand and damage the fuel tank or other fuel-related components.


-Tone

PS: I also recommend TDI-owners keep "fuelin' gloves" in their trunk. The first time I ever filled up, I got diesel on my hand and it stunk (in more ways than one!). It's not necessarily that people at diesel pumps are messier - it's just that diesel doesn't evaporate quickly like gasoline, so it leaves more of a perminant oily residue. So I bought a pair of cloth gloves with latex-coated palms. I just put one on at the pump, and it works great.

Thanks folks! I'm really amazed at how many people (and
quickly) this forum gets looked at. FWIW, I think I WAS filling the tank slowly because I didn't want it too foamy in the tank. Thanks for your tips, all of you!
And I'll have to check out that CNY link.

cmon guys... diesel stinks? smells strongly maybe, but not stinks. it smells heavenly i think. ive always wanted to make a cologne out of it... think it would get the ladies?? i know its probably a rare commodity at fuel stations, but if there is any grass or dirt around, ive always found that when i spilt fuel on me filling up the tractor or bulldozer, that if i rubbed my hands with the grass or the dirt like i was washing my hands, then went and wiped my hands off, or washed them, the smell went away. just a little tip for ya'll.

Mrkus said:
And I'll have to check out that CNY link.

Click to expand...

Oh! Hey - I hadn't noticed till now that you're a fellow `Cuser May I ask what station your overflow happened at?

-Tone

Mrkus said:
FWIW, I think I WAS filling the tank slowly because I didn't want it too foamy in the tank.

Click to expand...

There's no reason to worry about foam until and unless you're at the point where you're venting the tank. For a regular, non-vented fillup, don't give it a second thought.

Mrkus said:
After 2 weeks, nearly 500 miles and a 1/4 tank of gas left,

Click to expand...

GAS?

n1das said:

Mrkus said:
After 2 weeks, nearly 500 miles and a 1/4 tank of gas left,

Click to expand...

GAS?

Click to expand...

Fuel

Castrol GTX makes waterless hand cleaner. Go to wal-mart and pick up a little bottle of it. It's some very gummy stuff - you spread it on your hands and it solidifies into the consistency of rubber cement and then flakes off with all the dirt and grease attached to it. Easiest way to clean up that I know of - and no soap or water needed to get both the slipperiness and the stink off of your hands.

tditone said:
I didn't worry about the tank being too full, but if this ever happens to you again in the future (especially in the winter), bear in mind that when the car cools, the fuel expands. This is why it's not a good idea to "top off" the tank if you're not going to burn off some fuel before reaching your destination. It could expand and damage the fuel tank or other fuel-related components.

Click to expand...

Ummm... I don't think so.

mobe said:

tditone said:
I didn't worry about the tank being too full, but if this ever happens to you again in the future (especially in the winter), bear in mind that when the car cools, the fuel expands. This is why it's not a good idea to "top off" the tank if you're not going to burn off some fuel before reaching your destination. It could expand and damage the fuel tank or other fuel-related components.

Click to expand...

Ummm... I don't think so.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Reviewing what I wrote, I realize now that I had it backwards - the fuel expands when it heats up, not when it cools. However, the advice I gave is still sound:

When you fill your tank with cool fuel (..."cool fuel", I like that ) from an underground tank at the station, it will start heating up once it gets into your tank. As it does, it expands. The fuel pump nozzle shuts off with a reserve amount of air still in the tank to leave room for this expansion. That's why there is sometimes a bit of air that vents as you unscrew your fuel cap. If you didn't leave this room in the tank, fuel might spill out when you opened the cap.

Now if you take an extreme case of the tank being 100% full (such as the kind of overfill we're talking about), there's absolutely nowhere for the fuel to expand. If you're going to be driving for a while afterward, you'll likely burn off enough fuel before your destination for it not to be a problem. However, if you have a 100% full tank and you drive 1/2 a mile home and then park the car out in a hot summer day, the fuel will heat up quite a bit over the temperature in the underground storage tank it came from. As it does, it will expand against the tank. That can't be all that good for the plastic fuel tank our cars have. If you've even filled a plastic bottle to the top with water and stuck it in a freezer (water expands was it freezes), you'd see the damaging effect that expanding liquid can have on a container with no space to grow into.

This is how I understand it. If I am indeed mistaken, I'd be very happy to hear more accurate information.

Thanks,
-Tone

With the vent that our tanks have, any expanding fuel would spill over. This would not damage any components that I'm aware, except for maybe the paint in your fender.

philh said:
With the vent that our tanks have, any expanding fuel would spill over. This would not damage any components that I'm aware, except for maybe the paint in your fender.

Click to expand...

Hi,

When you say "spill over", do you mean spill over even with the cap tightened? In other words, is there some kind of release valve that will allow fuel to escape if it expands too much?

Thanks,
-Tone

Umm, yeah. The very same vent that you use to "vent" your tank when you fill up. In a car that doesn't have the "ventectomy", the vent tab is pushed in when the cap is tight. There is a hose from the vent assembly that runs down into the fender.

tditone said:
When you fill your tank with cool fuel (..."cool fuel", I like that

) from an underground tank at the station, it will start heating up once it gets into your tank. As it does, it expands. The fuel pump nozzle shuts off with a reserve amount of air still in the tank to leave room for this expansion. That's why there is sometimes a bit of air that vents as you unscrew your fuel cap. If you didn't leave this room in the tank, fuel might spill out when you opened the cap.

Now if you take an extreme case of the tank being 100% full (such as the kind of overfill we're talking about), there's absolutely nowhere for the fuel to expand. If you're going to be driving for a while afterward, you'll likely burn off enough fuel before your destination for it not to be a problem. However, if you have a 100% full tank and you drive 1/2 a mile home and then park the car out in a hot summer day, the fuel will heat up quite a bit over the temperature in the underground storage tank it came from. As it does, it will expand against the tank. That can't be all that good for the plastic fuel tank our cars have. If you've even filled a plastic bottle to the top with water and stuck it in a freezer (water expands was it freezes), you'd see the damaging effect that expanding liquid can have on a container with no space to grow into.

This is how I understand it. If I am indeed mistaken, I'd be very happy to hear more accurate information.

Click to expand...

This is a problem for Gasoline, it's nearly non-existent for Diesel. I don't have the exact volatility or thermal expansion figures handy but the topic has come up before on this forum, and the non-expansion of Diesel fuel is borne out in people's practical driving (and parking in hot sun) experiences.

philh said:
Umm, yeah. The very same vent that you use to "vent" your tank when you fill up. In a car that doesn't have the "ventectomy", the vent tab is pushed in when the cap is tight. There is a hose from the vent assembly that runs down into the fender.

Click to expand...

Ah - I see what you mean. I didn't realize that there was an extra escape route available when the cap is shut. So that would make yicky spillage the worst thing one should worry about with an over-full tank? Still something to keep in mind though.

Thanks for the info,
-Tone

Moto GS said:
This is a problem for Gasoline, it's nearly non-existent for Diesel. I don't have the exact volatility or thermal expansion figures handy but the topic has come up before on this forum, and the non-expansion of Diesel fuel is borne out in people's practical driving (and parking in hot sun) experiences.

Click to expand...

Good to hear - If this is indeed true, then it's one more reason to prefer diesel! (And one more reason it's "cool fuel" ).

Thanks,
-Tone

Y'all might want to look at and rethink the vent button assembly purpose.

The hose attached to it runs from the vent assembly to the top of the tank, allowing you to vent air from the tank.

In no way does it function as an overflow if tank "overfilled".

There should be a small hole in the rubber surround at your nozzle neck. This allows overflow to run to the ground, but only during refueling.

The hose attached to it runs from the vent assembly to the top of the tank, allowing you to vent air from the tank.

In no way does it function as an overflow if tank "overfilled".

Click to expand...

Why doesn't it? If a hose is attached to the top of the tank, and the valve on the other end of the hose is open, and the fuel expands, then it has to go somewhere. Why not up that hose? As a matter of fact, when you vent full up to the brim, hydraulics class tells us that that hose has to be full as well, no?

And the earlier posters are right. Diesel fuel as a VERY low coefficient of thermal expansion. While many have worried about venting and then parking in the sun, some of our south Texas members have tried this for a whole day in very warm temperatures and have not had any fuel spill out.

Diesel fuel as a VERY low coefficient of thermal expansion. While many have worried about venting and then parking in the sun, some of our south Texas members have tried this for a whole day in very warm temperatures and have not had any fuel spill out.

Click to expand...

I just learned something new!

The hose attached to it runs from the vent assembly to the top of the tank, allowing you to vent air from the tank.

Click to expand...

Well that makes perfect sense now that I've thought it through. Any air in the tank would obviously surface and be released. I stand corrected, although the emperical evidence seems to indicate that there is no pressure buildup on these tanks.

Also, this merits some clarifcation on my part - the tube I was referring to is shown in step 5 and is the drain tube for the boot around the neck. DOH! Glad this is the 101 forum

tditone said:
Oh! Hey - I hadn't noticed till now that you're a fellow `Cuser

May I ask what station your overflow happened at?

-Tone

Click to expand...

Tone - this was at the Pilot truckstop on 7th North, but not the truck pumps in back. Guess they want to separate the cars from the trucks

Mrkus said:

tditone said:
Oh! Hey - I hadn't noticed till now that you're a fellow `Cuser

May I ask what station your overflow happened at?

-Tone

Click to expand...

Tone - this was at the Pilot truckstop on 7th North, but not the truck pumps in back. Guess they want to separate the cars from the trucks

Click to expand...

Hi,

It sounds like you're up in Northern Syracuse. I thought I'd mention that there's a Hess Station on Hiawatha Blvd. that carries diesel (42 cetane). It's not the Hess right at the mall entrance, but the one up the street a few blocks. They tend to have pretty good prices. I like to fuel-up there when I can.

-Tone

Mrkus said:
After 2 weeks, nearly 500 miles and a 1/4 tank of gas left,
I filled up with diesel for the first time. Not knowing what to expect, I kept the pump going slow, but around 11 gallons figured "this thing's gotta stop soon" and soon enough....a soft sllllllossssshhhhhh-ing sound. I look down and see the fuel pouring down the side of my new Jetta wagon

Okay, NOW I see that diesel tanks are different than gasoline ones: there is no automatic shutoff on them! DOH! Lesson learned. Also, realize diesel fuel is hard to scrub off hands

At least now I know what to expect for next time.

Click to expand...

Silly question - but were you using a "normal" hose, or one of the big ones ( used for big trucks, etc.) ?

Cause I know that the big hose does not fit well in the '03 TDI tanks, and thus do not detect when to shut-off as well.

Exact same thing happened to me during my first fillup, except that I had taken my car to a full-serve, rather than self-serve.

duuudeman said:

Mrkus said:
After 2 weeks, nearly 500 miles and a 1/4 tank of gas left,
I filled up with diesel for the first time. Not knowing what to expect, I kept the pump going slow, but around 11 gallons figured "this thing's gotta stop soon" and soon enough....a soft sllllllossssshhhhhh-ing sound. I look down and see the fuel pouring down the side of my new Jetta wagon

Okay, NOW I see that diesel tanks are different than gasoline ones: there is no automatic shutoff on them! DOH! Lesson learned. Also, realize diesel fuel is hard to scrub off hands

At least now I know what to expect for next time.

Click to expand...

Silly question - but were you using a "normal" hose, or one of the big ones ( used for big trucks, etc.) ?

Cause I know that the big hose does not fit well in the '03 TDI tanks, and thus do not detect when to shut-off as well.

Exact same thing happened to me during my first fillup, except that I had taken my car to a full-serve, rather than self-serve.

Click to expand...

So what's the easiest way to fuel without making a big mess with an 03? I'm getting mine SOON and need to know.