Bully Dog Propane Injection for TDI

I found this one night screwing around on Ebay, it had a buy it now of $250 but now its upto $355. Its a bully dog propane injection for a TDI.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33740&item=2463078154


It claims:
WHY PROPANE INJECTION? The simple answer Quick,Effective and safe Horsepower for your Diesel engine.How on earth does it work? When the diesel is compressed in your engine it self ignites and explodes. While today's Diesel engines are very efficient in burning most all of the fuel that is injected,there is still a small amount of wasted fuel/energy. By adding precisionly measured Propane gas to the combustion mixture you can not only burn 100% of the injected Diesel the additional Propane means even more "Bang" for your buck! This results in Higher Horsepower AND HIGHER Fuel Economy. When used in ECONOMY mode your mpg will be maximised AND your Engines oil will be MUCH cleaner at each oil change resulting in increased engine bearing life.You will also notice a reduced exhaust smell whith propane injection dure to the extremely efficient burn! The drivers behind you will especially enjoy this feature.

When set into SPORT mode you can UNLEASH the beast in your Diesel engine! Adding up 25% more Horsepower and TORQUE! You adjust the amount of propane injection in minutes with this kit.

First of all, I have propane inj. so I am biased.

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Higher Horsepower AND HIGHER Fuel Economy. When used in ECONOMY mode your mpg will be maximised AND your Engines oil will be MUCH cleaner at each oil change resulting in increased engine bearing life.

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fuel economy is a wash, because you're still adding fuel. its just not diesel. you still have to fill that tank.
oil may be cleaner, but it makes no mention of the HUGE alteration in the combustion chamber pressure spike that propane induces. I don't know If I'm too happy with that.
Your EGT's will go up.
I love my propane. It was simple to install, its 99% passive in operation.
The power is excellent. As for what it's doing to my engine? I don't really know. I've been running it for ~30Kmiles with no outward signs of deterioration. MPG's are just the same as they've always been.
My biggest problem with it though is that I have a highly pressurized vessel containing extreemly explosive gas bolted into my trunk. I've tried to not let this scare me, but hey, I don't want to explode because of some minor accident I may be involved in.
Later,
-rob

One word for you. Detonation. Many people have experienced severe engine damage from propane systems. Search the web for propane diesel detonaton and you will find a few articles. Propane does have a high octane, but it has a low flash point obviously and therefore is very suseptible to pre-ignition, whic can of course lead to detonation.

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One word for you. Detonation. Many people have experienced severe engine damage from propane systems. Search the web for propane diesel detonaton and you will find a few articles. Propane does have a high octane, but it has a low flash point obviously and therefore is very suseptible to pre-ignition, whic can of course lead to detonation.

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Bear in mind that flash point is irrelevant to a diesel as it doesn't have a spark plug. Diesels have fuel injected at the correct point in the cycle hence there can be no pre-ignition as there is no fuel there to ignite. No detonation. Propane has a low flash point - but there is no flame to ignite it and propane (like high octane gasoline) has a high self ignition temperature (due to its high octane rating) so will not spontaneously combust under compression temperatures.

Whevever propane is injected in the cycle it can only ignite in the presence of a flame and that is when the diesel fuel is injected. Diesel has a very low self ignition temperature compared with gasoline and propane, and therefore the injection point of the diesel fuel is the only event that can start combustion.

Steve

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One word for you. Detonation. Many people have experienced severe engine damage from propane systems. Search the web for propane diesel detonaton and you will find a few articles. Propane does have a high octane, but it has a low flash point obviously and therefore is very suseptible to pre-ignition, whic can of course lead to detonation.

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Bear in mind that flash point is irrelevant to a diesel as it doesn't have a spark plug. Diesels have fuel injected at the correct point in the cycle hence there can be no pre-ignition as there is no fuel there to ignite. No detonation. Propane has a low flash point - but there is no flame to ignite it and propane (like high octane gasoline) has a high self ignition temperature (due to its high octane rating) so will not spontaneously combust under compression temperatures.

Whevever propane is injected in the cycle it can only ignite in the presence of a flame and that is when the diesel fuel is injected. Diesel has a very low self ignition temperature compared with gasoline and propane, and therefore the injection point of the diesel fuel is the only event that can start combustion.

Steve

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Steve,

Pre-ignition does not stem from a spark. It comes from hot carbon deposits, feathered exhaust valve etc.

You can have pre-ignition in a diesel engine when you have a propane fumigation system. The propane is not injected with the diesel fuel, but it mixed in the intake air. So any hot spot in the cylinder can ignite propane, ie pre-ignition. The pr-ignition causes the pressures and temperatures to increase beyond the auto-ignition point of the propane casuing it to explode.

Dunno about TDI specifically, but Bully Dog is a pretty big name in big diesel powered pickups like Cummins, Duramax, and Power Stroke. If you are willing to take the quest for power to a new level then give it a shot, keeping in mind that modifications of any sort put your engine at risk. Especially given our marginal turbo strength. Take a look at the TDI FAQ, there is a great Performance section I definitley recommend reading up on!

Propane has an octane rating of about 110. it requires tempatures between 950 - 1050 degrees to burn, which is higher than gasoline. At the same time it burns at about half the rate of gasoline. Big misconception is that propane burns really hot, which it doesnt. When set up to run properly it will run cool and reduce egt's.
Im going to be installing propane on my tdi, Ill let you guys know how it works out.

bbarbulo said:

Dunno about TDI specifically, but Bully Dog is a pretty big name in big diesel powered pickups like Cummins, Duramax, and Power Stroke. If you are willing to take the quest for power to a new level then give it a shot, keeping in mind that modifications of any sort put your engine at risk. Especially given our marginal turbo strength. Take a look at the TDI FAQ, there is a great Performance section I definitley recommend reading up on!

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A big name for sure, in advertising and marketing selling to the masses of unknown. On the truck forums, it's basically the sign for us that the user has no clue what they're doing and it's safe to say you'll outrun them. Take it for what it's worth.

I'm not a big propane fan, the way tuning on fuel has come in the last decade, I see no need for it anymore. If anything I'd be adding nitrous.

$355 for an injection system is equivalent in cost to 900 gallons of diesel (@ $4 per gallon) or @ 36,000 miles of driving. Skip the injection system and drive free for a year.

I love when ancient posts spring up again.

Better than a new thread.

DogParkGuy said:

$355 for an injection system is equivalent in cost to 900 gallons of diesel (@ $4 per gallon) or @ 36,000 miles of driving. Skip the injection system and drive free for a year.

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Am I wrong or did you mean 90 gallons of diesel. 900 gallons @ $4.00 would be $3600. I wish I could drive for a year on $355 dollars, that would be great.

Everyone stand back, I'm going to do math!

Yesterday I seemed to have a problem with decimal points and stand corrected.

High Octane doesn't mean low flash point ........ just the opposite!

As someone stated, Propane is about 110 Octane equivalent. And, as someone said, pre-ignition is caused by hot spots (carbon), but mostly the use of a hot spark plug in a gasser engine (hot meaning the tip retains heat longer) while running low Octane fuel. High Octane fuel will tend to flash later or not until the spark plug "sparks." Runing a colder plug will eventually result in a fouling, especially in older engines.

AndyBees said:

High Octane doesn't mean low flash point ........ just the opposite!

As someone stated, Propane is about 110 Octane equivalent. And, as someone said, pre-ignition is caused by hot spots (carbon), but mostly the use of a hot spark plug in a gasser engine (hot meaning the tip retains heat longer) while running low Octane fuel. High Octane fuel will tend to flash later or not until the spark plug "sparks." Runing a colder plug will eventually result in a fouling, especially in older engines.

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Exactly! I tried for years to beat this into people's heads. Back when I raced four wheelers I would always see people using a high octane (100+) in their stock, low compression engines. All they were doing was making them harder to start and emptying their wallets faster.

To the OP. There really are not many people that use propane at all in the diesel performance world anymore. Tuning has come so far lately, and we can control all sorts of things happening at the point of injection, propane seems to take away from that and reintroduces some unpredictability. Can it be used? Sure. What will it really gain you though? I think money is better spent else where myself.

With propane at 1.89 gallon, I was thinking of running it. Could save money.

VWBeamer said:

With propane at 1.89 gallon, I was thinking of running it. Could save money.

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Remember that it has fewer BTU's per gallon, though.

Mdub707 said:

To the OP. There really are not many people that use propane at all in the diesel performance world anymore.

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Good thing he asked in 2004

VWBeamer said:

With propane at 1.89 gallon, I was thinking of running it. Could save money.

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Dang thats cheap. I'm currently buying a 20# refill for $15-$20... roughly $4/gal.

8 Year old Thread brought back to life!

T.J.K. said:

Good thing he asked in 2004

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Gees!

Sure, someone tried the Search Function and got lucky!

Well, admittedly, I very seldom pay close attention to the start date of a Thread ...............

Wow! ..........over 8 years ago

Yeah, wow. I'm not used to this with all of these old threads bumping to the top! Never seen a forum with so many old posts at the top like this. I guess I'll pay more attention before responding, holy cow.

T.J.K. said:

Good thing he asked in 2004

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It wasn't me he pushed the thread to the top!

I know you didn't, but you mentioned the OP. I wasn't being rude or anything. I just thought it was all pretty funny. I have replied to threads as well thinking they were current without ever looking. It's easy to do, especially on a phone.

Propane

Hello.... Anyone out there... Looking for someone to talk to about propane injection and if anyone has/does it anymore.
Kyle