best timing belt for BEW w/mods

Wondering Best high performance timing belt? a short history, 04 mk4 BEW purchased from a friend not running. former owners had EGR delete and tune done, T-belt had 30k on it previous owner stated he used a Gates replacement, youth drivers mind you assume a heavey foot? I found T-belt failed, had skipped time 3 teeth. I replaced T-belt used the ID parts high mileage kit(Gates), had the head completely reconditioned w/new guides/ex.valves, installed new Colt stage 2/lifters, replaced the turbo with a new Garret VNT 17 all the old stuff had 226,000 miles. I personally meticulously reassembled the engine. BTW did some modifications to the front mount I will share pics/descriptions in another post. I couldn't be happier with the outcome, runs flawlessly it will blow the tires off in 1&2. I am concerned now for the longevity of the stock grade timing belts given the old rule "the more power you make the faster you wear things out" I've read about them here, and of the stock type belts I'd likely use the recommendation of Frank06. I searched for something more substantial question is will these 83$ Kevlar t-belts be at home in subzero weather? If not how cold is TOO cold? I am in Columbus Ohio not always the coldest for sure, but I may be driving this daily. Thank you to everyone for the excellent info I have gleaned here ,used in conjunction with Bentley's and You tube I didn't go wrong.

I cannot see that the camshaft and thus the belt is under more stress with more power made in the engine.

Pistons and rods, yeah. Clutch, trans, and axles, yeah.

To follow up with what jokila said, typically it's something in the path if the belt that fails. Then in turn, destroys the belt and kaboom...

Just buy a complete high mileage kit from a vendor here IDPARTS, Franko6, Kerma, Cascade, Metal Man...

jokila said:

I cannot see that the camshaft and thus the belt is under more stress with more power made in the engine.

Pistons and rods, yeah. Clutch, trans, and axles, yeah.

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In a pumpe duse engine more power does increase stress on the timing belt.

This is because the injectors are operated by the cam. If you need to inject more fuel, in the same amount of time, it takes more force.

The injectors have a normally open bypass valve that allows fuel to pass through when it isn’t needed. The computer closes this valve to force fuel to the injector tip. The length of time the valve is closed, and where during the plunger stroke it closes determines how much fuel is injected.

Engine RPM also plays a role. Imagine that the injector injects a certain maximum volume of fuel per stroke. When the engine is spinning at a lower RPM it has more time to inject that fuel. As the engine speed increases, the same amount, or even more, fuel is being injected, but in a shorter amount of time, since the rotation speed of the cam is directly responsible for how fast the plunger moves up and down.

A number of owners have reported their timing belt stripping teeth while under load. Usually merging onto a highway or something like that. Happened to me too.

You could drive for years with an older timing belt, and the moment you use full power (with an aggressive tune) it fails.

So, with a tuned PD engine it is important to make sure the timing belt is replaced regularly. Failure comes with no warning, and it happens at full throttle. If teeth are on the verge of stripping, that’s when it happens.

I hadn.t thought of that angle and I appreciate the heads up on how these usually fail, I just felt there's probably a severe duty belt out there that some of the readers here had tried not unlike replacing the t-chain in the typical American v8. if you replace the cam in lets say a 1967 327 chevy usually you will install a double roller timing chain set and a cam button to keep the timing an spark advance from varying to wildly as these engines had shortcomings in that area.It occurred to me that if a 1.9 had a cam change that supposedly adds 10 HP, without the benefit off a tune then any of the stock components in play may not be up to the task. I was going to switch the brand of belt after I've logged about 20k on this thing anyway not to trusting of Gates belts knowing what I found out, again if anyone reading this has used the Kevlar belts or have a high performance preference let me know what your experiences have been especially with colder climates.

The Dayco belt is what we use and we like it. When changed according to the lesser of 100k or 5 years, we don't see problems. The belt isn't Kevlar. It's PTFE. The point is to run smoother and cooler.

Which brings me to the ambient temp you are worried about. I don't think the belt has shown any bad habits and we've sold it from Arizona to Alberta and everywhere in between... -50 to 120... doesn't seem to make any difference. Just remember, the mileage is 100k; the years are 5, whichever comes first.

We just did I timing belt on a BRM, last done by us in 2012 and rolled 184,000 miles on it. I do not recommend testing the limits. But that was a Dayco Belt. Maybe it helped.

That's news to me, last I heard the PDs were reduced to 80k miles/ 5 years

So my 2 cents on belt vs more power (dont take my understanding of this as much, I dont exactly know) is that these tdi engines in the last 5 or so generations dating back to the mk3 seem to not have issues with more power. No mods exist off the self and talking with tuners and guys who have or guys who know about 400hpand beyond builds all run 1 belt with quality parts. I have seen a build that run a 2 belt set up but I was told it was experimental. Any of the suppliers here have quality parts. I dont think it's an issue as the power strain on the belt is completely dependent on the parts that run off the crank and no matter the power put out by the crank, the devices like the pump or the cam is unaffected enough to make a difference. Food for thought.

Thanks for all this info, ( the Gates engineer info is over the top!)I was at the latest going to change to the Dayco belt at 80k. I was thinking Gates may have cheaped up(?) there belts maybe the previous owner got a reboxed Gates? Mine came from ID parts in there 100k kit. hopefully they don't sell reboxed **** at this time. I am loving driving this thing, and wanna keep a good thing going. I'm so far not overwhelmed by the MPG getting around 30.5? was hoping for 35? I have really put some effort into this, with new engine top end, turbo, clutch, S.M. flywheel, replaced all 4 wheel bearing , rear brakes with new calipers steel lines and splash shields, found a tight used 5 speed for $750(no core required) at local wrecking yard, my orig.5 speed had real bad diff. side bearings, the diff. wore into the case about an 1/8". so again many thanks for all the thoughts and input. If nothing else I feel a bit more at ease about the parts I installed - Teitel39

30 or 35 is way low. Something ain't right. You should be getting 43 average at least

Gates, Conti, or Dayco timing belts are all made to the same spec, and the current change interval is 80K miles, as mentioned above. We (IDParts) only sell Gates belts that we purchase direct from Gates. They haven't changed production locations in some time, and quality is also unchanged.

The reason we stick with the Dayco is PTFE. We like 'a little bit more' with everything we do. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Gates belts are bad, I just think Dayco (sister company) is better. PTFE runs smoother and cooler. Smoother on the cogs means they last longer, belt flexing causes heat and PTFE means the belt runs cooler.

Why go the 'extra mile'? As I said, we just did a Dayco timing belt job from a customer that was in the shop last time, in 2012. 184,000 miles later, he calls to get the timing belt done. So, he past the years and the mileage by nearly double for what we have allowed: 100k/ 5 year interval. In my opinion, not only the belt, but the water pump makes the difference. We stick with two of the best versions of water pump and belt. Otherwise, a seized water pump or broken belt; we would either be rebuilding the engine or he'd be junking the car.

Yes, next belt will be Dayco PTFE, thank you, and thanks to Indigo for the assurance of your supplies Quality. On my mileage issue, I can only think and wonder if maybe the kid that owned this previously went a bit to far with the tune? I have had the ECU out of the car no sticker or markings that indicate what tune is in it. Is there a way I can tell with the VAG com? thanks _ teitel39

Franko6 said:

The reason we stick with the Dayco is PTFE. We like 'a little bit more' with everything we do. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Gates belts are bad, I just think Dayco (sister company) is better. PTFE runs smoother and cooler. Smoother on the cogs means they last longer, belt flexing causes heat and PTFE means the belt runs cooler.

Why go the 'extra mile'? As I said, we just did a Dayco timing belt job from a customer that was in the shop last time, in 2012. 184,000 miles later, he calls to get the timing belt done. So, he past the years and the mileage by nearly double for what we have allowed: 100k/ 5 year interval. In my opinion, not only the belt, but the water pump makes the difference. We stick with two of the best versions of water pump and belt. Otherwise, a seized water pump or broken belt; we would either be rebuilding the engine or he'd be junking the car.

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Are these the products that you have in kits on your site as well?


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Site? We are an anomaly when it comes to a website. As a 'Mom & Pop' operation, we don't have nor want the 'manpower' to run a website. Reputation and Word of Mouth runs our company. Call me up, email me. We stay plenty busy.

Growler,

It used to be VW said you can't rebuild cylinder heads. So, you could say I'm known for breaking the rules, but only when we can show the rule is wrong. For example, 33 ft lbs on the cam sprocket bolt for an ALH. That drew me some grief saying it should be 45 ft lbs. There are many things we have 'revised', but only based on a knowledge base we have developed (nearly 7,000 cylinder heads built) and the parts we recommend. We make recommendations based on our experience.

Teitel 39,

There are more than a few threads we have produced concerning mileage, torsion value and injector repair/ rework for the PD engines. We also know that some of the 'power improvement kits' available end up being 'tank your fuel economy kits'. When tuning the PD motors and before exchanging injectors you will not be able to get back, we suggest giving the existing injectors a trial. The stock injectors are capable of creating a lot more power without changing from the stock nozzles, as the ECU's injector driver chips can easily be pushed to 80% duty cycle without issue. We have several 165hp tunes on stock nozzles, including my own vehicle. In my opinion, what's wrong with that? If you become fuel starved, then you can step up to larger nozzles later.

As it is, we have a thread called "PD Engines - The Problem of Setting Torsion Value
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=336279

This may not cure your issue, but it is a great place to start.

As for 'all belts being made to the same standard', that may be, but the belts are not made in the same way. Dayco is our preference. This is because of the PTFE coating. We see others charge an additional cost for the Dayco belt as an 'upgrade'. It is our standard belt in each of the kits we sell, when it is available. At this time, the PTFE belts are not available for any of the Common Rail motors.

If I can be any additional help, let me know.