Fuel additive OK with 2012 TDI?

tditom · Dec 30, 2012

scdevon said:
Ford, GM and Chrysler are having HPFP failures. Search around.

On paper, Bio is an awesome lubricity enhancer. In the real world, there are massive bio fuel quality control problems and massive D2 quality control problems.

If you're going to claim it, the least you can do is provide a link.

Ford allows B20, so if they are having HPFP problems, they aren't blaming biodiesel for it.

Biodiesel has been in use in this country for at least a decade. The "massive qc" problems you speak of have not manifested themselves in failing fuel $y$tems before this or in any other automaker besides VW CR came on the scene.

chineybutu · Dec 30, 2012

My stealership sold me stanadyne performance additive the one in the blue bottle

JBell · Dec 30, 2012

scdevon said:
Ford, GM and Chrysler are having HPFP failures. Search around.

On paper, Bio is an awesome lubricity enhancer. In the real world, there are massive bio fuel quality control problems and massive D2 quality control problems.

I'd be curious to read the literature about bio fuel quality control issues. Do you have a link we can read?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

scdevon · Dec 31, 2012

tditom said:
If you're going to claim it, the least you can do is provide a link.

http://www.heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/29434-Ford-6-7L-HPFP-failures-w-o-warranty/page6

Here's a 12 page thread from 2012 about Ford HPFPs blowing up. There are plenty of Dodge / GM / VW links in the thread, too.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=372458&highlight=rinsed&page=8
Then there's post #118 from a guy who delivers fuel for a living

BTW.. Diesel fuel cross contamination IS very common... how do I KNOW..
I deliver/ load fuel to the gas stations. Its not on purpose but those big-ass double trucks you see usually dont completely empty there load of diesel or whatever grade of gasoline they have on board.

Additives usually get mixed in with whatever fuel (Ex. bio diesel with ULSD) in states that require 5% BD at the fuel tank farms at the loading pump.

most tankers dont get "rinsed out" This same cross contamination also happens with every other grade of fuel. not allot but does happen frequently (most times)

when you see for example, a generic reseller (Space ace, or Tesorro, texaco truck or other thats JUST the label/ owner on the tank. normally that fuel came from the refinery who sold it the cheapest that day whoever produced it.

Chevron, Shell, 76 DO only haul/ sell their own refined fuel to their owned stations
but still none of these refiners have dedicated truck for certain grades of fuel.

Gasoline cross contamination is common with BioDiesel and D2. In fact, it's the norm. That's a quality control problem in my book. Then there's the unstable nature of Bio. It's hygroscopic, corrosive and unstable in storage. You also never know what you're getting. Animal fat? Soy? The "I don't worry because my state has mandated X% biodiesel" attitude might get you into trouble.

Nobody is blaming Bio per se, just poor fuel quality control across the board. It's common for labs (like Power Service and Bosch) to sample fuel from retail pumps that fails the already piss poor 520um lubricity test. I feel that this is due in part to gasoline contamination.

I can't "prove" everything. This is a discussion forum.

Tin Man · Jan 1, 2013

tditom said:
I'm not sure what facts I posted that brought you to this conclusion, or how your points back up the above

See below excerpt from the Fuel Requirements for Diesel Fuel Injection Systems Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers Common Position Statement 2009
Additives:
Fuel standards are performance based. Meeting the standard specifications is a minimum requirement. In order to further improve fuel quality, the use of additives in the appropriate amount is helpful provided that harmful side-effects can be excluded (e.g. internal injector deposits). Additives demonstrated to have harmful effects that result in field issues must not be used, even if the blended fuel meets the performance standard. It is the responsibility of the fuel provider to exclude harmful side-effects.
Lubricity:
It is essential that the lubricity of the fuel as measured by the HFRR test specified in ISO 12156-1 meets the requirement of a wear scar diameter not greater than 460 microns. In addition, it is recommended by the Diesel FIE manufacturers, that “first fill” of the fuel tank should be with fuel with good lubricity characteristics (HFRR < 400 µm) in order to guarantee good “run-in” of the injection system components. The US diesel specification (ASTM D 975-09) includes a lubricity value of 520 µm maximum (according to ASTM D 6079). It is expected that the useful operating lifetime of any mechanical
component will be adversely affected by fuel with a lubricity exceeding 460 microns.

The interpretation is that the fuel provider determines the compatibility of the additive and how it will affect other parameters in addition to lubricity.

Clearly, Bosch and VW don't specify any aftermarket additives for this purpose. If they did, it would be as clear as when the problems with OHC gasoline engine exhaust valve deposits appeared on the scene or engine oil sludging occurred: BMW and others came out with specific recommendations for aftermarket fuel additives, while Toyota, Mercedes, etc. changed their oil recommendations. Specific brands of additive and oil were mentioned as well as model year.

PS and perhaps others do test their additives for many different effects on different fuel samples, but also have, perhaps, limited specific benefits in their formulations.

Specific recommendations have not yet happened for diesel fuel for a number of reasons, the least of which could be that lubricity has not been shown conclusively to be at the heart of HPFP failures. While it seems we agree that Bosch and VW should have provided a more robust fuel pump design, it is still unclear whether putting an additive in that is similar to what is already provided by the fuel company can do any good or prevent any HPFP failure.

TM

jni3 · Jan 1, 2013

I use Amsoil Cetane Boost Diesel Fuel Additive and Amsoil Diesel Concentrate Plus Cold Flow Improver. I believe they are both working well for me.

Fuel additive OK with 2012 TDI?

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