help! alh died on road

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FlexYJeeper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Oak Harbor Washington
TDI
MKIV Golf
Was driving my two and while sitting at a red light i noticed it was shaking really hard and was making a funny noise, not quite a knock bit like that. It was still accelerating fine. I pulled over and went to pop the hood and it died. Now I can hear the starter grab but it doesn't spin the crank
 
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belome

Top Post Dawg
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Apr 8, 2010
Location
Mid MI
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
What is the timing belt history?

Is it an auto or manually tranny? If manual I wonder if you lost a DMF?

edit - crud, I guess if you push started it must be a manual... so DMF?
 
BleachedBora

BleachedBora

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Oct 16, 2003
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Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
Dual Mass Flywheel - when they let go the springs go everywhere. They have been known to take out transmissions too.

 
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FlexYJeeper

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Feb 4, 2017
Location
Oak Harbor Washington
TDI
MKIV Golf
Any way to check ignite the clutch? I'm about to start pulling the valve cover off and look for dropped valves.

It was shaking at idle then perfectly smooth going through rpms
 
PB_NB

PB_NB

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Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
Sounds like it could be the DMF but the stalling at idle seems strange.

When my DMF was about to die, I would get a squeal when I started the car. The bonding material was disintegrating and the 2 masses where coming unglued.

Changed it before complete failure occurred.

When you are turning it over, does the starter run on after the 1 revolution of the engine? Can you line up the timing marks on the ring gear and the cam? This might tell you how messed up the flywheel is if the marks are not even in the ballpark.

Can you get any info on the clutch or possible updates from the previous owner? Many of these DMFs are switched out to Single Mass Flywheels (SMF) when the clutch is replaced.
 
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belome

Top Post Dawg
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Mid MI
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2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
How do you have a motor newer than the timing belt?

I guess you re-used it? What all was rebuilt? Was the rebuild due to a failed timing belt?
 
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FlexYJeeper

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Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Oak Harbor Washington
TDI
MKIV Golf
PB_NB said:
Sounds like it could be the DMF but the stalling at idle seems strange.

When my DMF was about to die, I would get a squeal when I started the car. The bonding material was disintegrating and the 2 masses where coming unglued.

Changed it before complete failure occurred.

When you are turning it over, does the starter run on after the 1 revolution of the engine? Can you line up the timing marks on the ring gear and the cam? This might tell you how messed up the flywheel is if the marks are not even in the ballpark.

Can you get any info on the clutch or possible updates from the previous owner? Many of these DMFs are switched out to Single Mass Flywheels (SMF) when the clutch is replaced.
Click to expand...

i can try, i have to go to work in a few minutes so i will mess with it tomorrow morning. i get one compression... sometimes... i tried earlier and got 3.

the PO is useless. im trying to get info from the guy who rebuilt it who works for audi and did it on the side

belome said:
How do you have a motor newer than the timing belt?

I guess you re-used it? What all was rebuilt? Was the rebuild due to a failed timing belt?
Click to expand...
thats what the PO told me. the TB looks to be almost new and is intact. my guess is it was replaced when the engine was rebuilt.

1854sailor said:
The plot thickens. Who did the rebuild and why?
Click to expand...
an audi tech on the side. i dont know why.
 
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pudman2003

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Feb 17, 2016
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Wa
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Mk4 Tropical Orange GTD, Lifted Jetta Wagon TDI, MK2 Jetta Coupe GTD
alh died

sent you a PM
 
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eddieleephd

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Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
reading this I have a lot of questions about it, but, I'll ask only a couple.
What is the battery voltage?
When you try to crank the engine what happens?

Honestly sounds like the alternator wasn't charging and when it died the ECM lost power causing the anti-shudder valve to close and shut the engine down.
I will just hope something like that happened rather than the few other things that come to mind.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1214327
 
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FlexYJeeper

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Feb 4, 2017
Location
Oak Harbor Washington
TDI
MKIV Golf
pudman2003 said:
sent you a PM
Click to expand...
PM replied!


POWERSTROKE said:
Plugged intake?
Click to expand...
That was one of my thoughts. How could I check it? Could it be clogged at the turbo?



eddieleephd said:
reading this I have a lot of questions about it, but, I'll ask only a couple.
What is the battery voltage?
When you try to crank the engine what happens?

Honestly sounds like the alternator wasn't charging and when it died the ECM lost power causing the anti-shudder valve to close and shut the engine down.
I will just hope something like that happened rather than the few other things that come to mind.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1214327
Click to expand...
Not sure on battery voltage. I tried jumping it with my truck after getting a ride back to base with no luck.

When I crank the engine I can hear the starter hit the flywheel and I might get one compression stroke before it jams.
 
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bbarbulo

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Location
Windsor, ON, Canada
Too hard to say right off the bat, could be many things. This one is gonna take some investigation on your part to find the culprit.

I would also start with the flywheel first. I can't recall when I did the clutch if there was an inspection cover on these cars or not. If not, I'd pull the starter and look in there with a scope/camera or a flashlight and a mirror. Then pull the timing mark plug and try to turn the engine over with a prybar while watching what happens inside the starter hole.

It also wouldn't surprise me if losing the DMF can make timing jump. Losing the harmonic balancer pulley smashed a valve in the car I have, this is the same thing (kinda) on the opposite side of the engine. Once you verify the flywheel is the culprit, I would for sure double check the timing. It takes all of 5 minutes to do.
 
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FlexYJeeper

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Location
Oak Harbor Washington
TDI
MKIV Golf
Thanks for all the help! I'm going to try all your advice first. If I can't find an issue I'm popping off the valve cover to look for a dropped valve. I'm trying to get in touch with the guy who rebuilt the motor hoping he can tell me if it had a smf or dmf
 
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FlexYJeeper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Oak Harbor Washington
TDI
MKIV Golf
eddieleephd said:
reading this I have a lot of questions about it, but, I'll ask only a couple.
What is the battery voltage?
When you try to crank the engine what happens?

Honestly sounds like the alternator wasn't charging and when it died the ECM lost power causing the anti-shudder valve to close and shut the engine down.
I will just hope something like that happened rather than the few other things that come to mind.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1214327
Click to expand...
finally off work so i was able to check that thread. i played with the anti shudder valve a little right after it happened. it wasnt stuck. i dont think it was the alternator as the battery still had power afterwards when i tried to start it

bbarbulo said:
Too hard to say right off the bat, could be many things. This one is gonna take some investigation on your part to find the culprit.

I would also start with the flywheel first. I can't recall when I did the clutch if there was an inspection cover on these cars or not. If not, I'd pull the starter and look in there with a scope/camera or a flashlight and a mirror. Then pull the timing mark plug and try to turn the engine over with a prybar while watching what happens inside the starter hole.

It also wouldn't surprise me if losing the DMF can make timing jump. Losing the harmonic balancer pulley smashed a valve in the car I have, this is the same thing (kinda) on the opposite side of the engine. Once you verify the flywheel is the culprit, I would for sure double check the timing. It takes all of 5 minutes to do.
Click to expand...
will defiantly pull the starter tomorrow and see what i can do. if it did jump time hopefully the head isnt ****ed. when it died it was already parked and idling. i didnt hear anything metallic like metal to metal contact at any point. no smoke either.
 
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bbarbulo

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Location
Windsor, ON, Canada
def start there, it's the easiest point of inspection for this kind of thing... starter takes about 20 min to pull, then you can get a view of what's going on.

The likelyhood it jumped time is low, but I would check it before running the car again, that's all. the failure on my car happened at idle also according to PO. And the fact she had the crank pulley confirms. I mean if she was at highway speed, not likely she would have found the runaway pulley by the time she stopped lol.

this is a pretty big failure, if it is the flywheel, changing the clutch isn't hard but it is a lot of work. at least on these cars the trans comes out without subframe removal. Three other trans jobs I've done all req'd subframe removal.
 
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FlexYJeeper

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Feb 4, 2017
Location
Oak Harbor Washington
TDI
MKIV Golf
Yes. That's a sore subject and I'm not ready to talk about it yet. Motor is shot. Stay tuned. Might make a video to see how long it will last if I replace the motor oil with Guinness. This car has taken my blood and sweat. Midas well send it out with beer from its homeland.

Working on getting a new motor. I'll do a write up later. Possibly a Video log.


Edit: just realised Guinness is Irish. Well it deserves a ****ty beer.
 
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bbarbulo

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Jan 11, 2003
Location
Windsor, ON, Canada
I don't have confidence when people say 'motor is shot'. Save for a hole in the block or a crack in the block, I haven't yet seen a bad engine anywhere. People say that because its easier and cheaper to drop in another one, if you are paying someone. But if you are doing the labor, sometimes you can get away with minimal cash outlay. My car was back up with a few hundred bucks. My odyssey tranny rebuild and upgrade was done for around $600. Both jobs were quoted north of $3000 to previous owners.
 
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bbarbulo

Veteran Member
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Jan 11, 2003
Location
Windsor, ON, Canada
Also, sorry it all went south for you so quickly. Iirc you've had the car less than a month and you paid good money for it. That's a poor introduction to the breed.
 
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FlexYJeeper

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Feb 4, 2017
Location
Oak Harbor Washington
TDI
MKIV Golf
quick copy and paste from my build thread. car has been nicknamed "The Turdbo Diesel"

got the golf home Wednesday and had work that night so couldnt mess with it. i had been talking to pudman2003 on the phone and he was really helpful, Thursday when i was finally off work i called him to let him know i was finally getting to tear into it he said he was going to catch the 11am ferry to the island and help me with it, Awesome! someone who knows these motors! before he got here i went to check the timing to see if it had jumped time. i went to turn the crank i the bolt on the crank pulley tightened up. wonderful. it wasn't even tight....

about that time i had to leave to pick up pudman to get him on base, when he got here we checked the timing and it was a little off but not really enough to have jumped a tooth. we pulled the valve cover to find that whoever rebuilt it put the cam looked like a dog had chewed on it. should have never gone back in looking that way. however ugly it was it still did not cause the problem. we got the motor broken free and put it back together. once it fired off there was clanking. it was bad.


my guess is it dropped a valve. i dont know i havent taken the head off. after seeing the cam and a few other bits that the guy who rebuilt it reused i dont really want anything to do with this motor right now. the pistons, cylinder bore, and connecting rods might be fine, the engine might just that valve replaced on the head but i dont think i can trust this motor.

Friday night i made a 2 hr drive across the boarder to buy a new motor for $650USD its from a 2000 jetta 5spd with 190k the guy i bought it from had it for 3 years before it got rear ended he bought it back to fix it but then found out how hard of a process it was going to be to get it legal and decided to part it out. this motor has never been rebuilt and seems to have been maintained well. hopefully it works out well for me. if this motor is trashed i honestly dont know what i'll do. for now the golf it going to be parked as ive been spending too much money and am almost uncomfortable with my current finances so im going to park it and put some money away until i can afford to do the motor swap correctly
Click to expand...
 
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