White Smoke (Stuck injector or glow plug)?

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iadubber

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Location
Iowa
TDI
JSW
Hello there,
Upon searching on my problem I think I have it narrowed down to a stuck/leaking injector or glow plug going bad.

Symptoms: After parking, shutting down, I come back out and a big puff of white / gray smoke. It's diesel smelling, not a coolant smell. The cloud fills my garage in the morning, and still does it throughout the day if I drive and park somewhere, which is why I'm leaning towards a stuck injector.

I am chipped, stage 2 Malone, and DPF/EGR Delete.

My question is how do I figure out which injector may be leaking with VCDS, and similar, how can I test all the glow plugs as well? Thanks!
Chad
 
elitegunslinger

elitegunslinger

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Location
Barnegat NJ
TDI
2010 Golf TDI :D
Hrmm, maybe you have a regen occurring... but the tune takes care of that. Sounds like you're running rich though for sure, checked the MAF already? Glow plug is only used the start the motor, not keep it running so I don't think that's it. Injector seems plausible, any metal in your fuel filter?
 
crazyrunner33

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
More than likely you would have a CEL if there was a problem with the glow plugs. How long has it been deleted and how long does the smoke last? If it only lasts for a second or two, I wouldn't be surprised, given the temperature in Iowa at this time. If the needle isn't seated perfectly, it'll dribble a little fuel when cold and create a nice puff on start up. If there is a hung up injector, you should see a drop in rail pressure.

Before you worry about the injectors, check the intercooler for condensation and check the fuel filter and fuel prime system. Injector failures are pretty rare on newer common rail engines that have a proper filtration system and haven't been misfueled.
 
I

iadubber

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Location
Iowa
TDI
JSW
Never been misfueled that I know of. Fuel filter was changed in November. Intercooler had minimal water in it two weeks ago when I checked that.

It's not a puff, it's a cloud. Usually 5 seconds or so and then there's no more smoke at all.
 
oilhammer

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Some smoke at start up and immediately after in the bitter cold can be considered normal (check your owner's manual). However if you feel it is beyond what you have experienced prior there may be something amiss.

The glow system is fine, you'd have an MIL staring you in the face if there was a problem with that. If it starts and runs OK, and is not missing or stumbling, that is a good sign.

I would look at all the ECU temp inputs when it is cold, before you start it, and verify that they are all pretty close to whatever the ambient is. Intake air temp, coolant temp, and fuel temp.

You can also try running some diesel additive through a tank, and buy a full tank at a different location, just to rule some of that out.

Keep in mind, when you delete the DPF/etc. you are basically making the exhaust system work just like the older cars, and pretty much every VE or PD TDI puts out a little puff (at least) in the cold. All mine do, always have. Even when they were brand spanking new.

Now if it does this even after it is warm, then you may have a problem. An injector could be the culprit. I doubt it would be low compression, because I would think the cylinder pressure sensors in the glow plugs would flag a low cylinder contribution fault.
 
I

iadubber

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Location
Iowa
TDI
JSW
oilhammer said:
Some smoke at start up and immediately after in the bitter cold can be considered normal (check your owner's manual). However if you feel it is beyond what you have experienced prior there may be something amiss.

The glow system is fine, you'd have an MIL staring you in the face if there was a problem with that. If it starts and runs OK, and is not missing or stumbling, that is a good sign.

I would look at all the ECU temp inputs when it is cold, before you start it, and verify that they are all pretty close to whatever the ambient is. Intake air temp, coolant temp, and fuel temp.

You can also try running some diesel additive through a tank, and buy a full tank at a different location, just to rule some of that out.

Keep in mind, when you delete the DPF/etc. you are basically making the exhaust system work just like the older cars, and pretty much every VE or PD TDI puts out a little puff (at least) in the cold. All mine do, always have. Even when they were brand spanking new.

Now if it does this even after it is warm, then you may have a problem. An injector could be the culprit. I doubt it would be low compression, because I would think the cylinder pressure sensors in the glow plugs would flag a low cylinder contribution fault.
Click to expand...
I understand that some smoke at start up is normal especially with environmental conditions and the mods to my car, but this is beyond normal. It does do it when it's warm. I can drive the car to work (30 miles), park it for an hour maybe two, get back in and huge puff comes out. It does it cold and warm. The morning puff is big enough to fill my garage with smoke nearly every morning. The car runs great, no hesitation or anything like that.

I guess my main question is how can I test rail pressure and see if an injector is leaking with VCDS? Is my only recourse buying an injector and swapping one at a time and seeing if the problem stops?
 
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oilhammer

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You may be able to pull up the cylinder balance data blocks before you start the car and see if there is any big variations right after you start it. But like I said, I would think if it were a case of ONE cylinder being the culprit, you'd have a miss/stumble and the ECU would have already flagged a problem with that cylinder.

And if it were a timing problem, I would also think the ECU would have flagged that as a CKP/CMP sensor correlation fault.

Rail pressure is controlled, thus monitored, very closely by the ECU. If you had low rail pressure, you'd know. MIL would be on.

Is anyone doing CR injector testing that we know of?
 
crazyrunner33

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
iadubber said:
I understand that some smoke at start up is normal especially with environmental conditions and the mods to my car, but this is beyond normal. It does do it when it's warm. I can drive the car to work (30 miles), park it for an hour maybe two, get back in and huge puff comes out. It does it cold and warm. The morning puff is big enough to fill my garage with smoke nearly every morning. The car runs great, no hesitation or anything like that.
Click to expand...

It'll do that because the combustion temperature will be cold again when started. You say that it clears up in 5 seconds, it's clearing up once the combustion temperature reaches a sufficient point. My common rail Jeep did the same thing, but it didn't clear up as quickly. The SAC injectors on my Cummins are very sensitive to heat, it'll haze white smoke for a few minutes. When you let it cool down, it'll do it again. But when I mean cool down, I don't mean shutting off the engine, the combustion temperature will drop enough when idling a couple minutes where it would start to smoke again. Keep in mind, this is in Flordia, it's worst up north.

Looking at your posts, it sounds like you just recently performed the deletes. It's winter and it's cold up in Iowa, welcome to the 2007 and older life of a diesel. In the summer, it shouldn't be as bad.
 
I

iadubber

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Location
Iowa
TDI
JSW
Just an added thing, when it does a huge puff it is harder starting than the times the puff is small.
 
crazyrunner33

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
Yup, it's normal, it's just cold. Try putting the engine block heater on, it won't be quite as bad. My common rail Jeep without a DPF was worst, it's the reason I still haven't deleted my Golf. The 12 valve with 22-24 degrees of timing on a cold would smoke so bad, people would call the fire department.. After the injectors warm up, it would be as clean as a whistle and idle more smoothly than the TDI.
 
M

MR5X5

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Location
Seattle
TDI
2012
I've got the same setup as you. If yours is normal, then mine is abnormal. At most I get a small puff when cold and temps in the 20's. No where near what your vid was showing. Excessive white smoke is typically too much fuel or not enough air. I'd run some injector cleaner, and check my air filter for starters. If it is glow plug it should not run smooth right at startup. That it does it warm tells me it's not a glow plug....
 
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iadubber

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Location
Iowa
TDI
JSW
Bringing this back from the dead.

Now I'm losing coolant and there are no leaks. There is no coolant present in the oil that I can see. I'm wondering if I have a cracked head. I've read several threads about a crack in the cylinder head on cylinder 3. I wonder about a cracked head since there is no oil in the coolant but the coolant is slightly brown so maybe soot is getting into the crack.

I have noticed coolant smell from the exhaust on shutdown on hard runs, but NOT every time I shut the car off.

I still have the same white/gray puff that smells of diesel every 3-5 starts if it sits for more than a few hours.

How do I tell if my head is cracked without pulling the head?

It puts me in a tough bind with the potential buyback coming. I've been debating just parking and getting a beater car until we hear the full plan from VW. Anyone have thoughts on head gasket vs head cracked? I really don't want to drop 1300+ on a bare head or 1500+ on a used motor at this point.

I'm planning on removing the EGR cooler with the delete kit to see if that could be cracked, but not sure if it will make a difference.
 
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