Ward's AutoWorld comments about the PD

20IndigoBlue02

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

Volkswagen AG 1.9L SOHC turbodiesel I-4
• 100 hp/177 lb.-ft. (Jetta)

Yea: Entertaining in-gear acceleration; fuel economy, of course.

Nay: Noisier than is advisable for winning over U.S. buyers.

The Call: Encapsulate.


Yes...I posted the exact same thing on the 'tex
 

Dunhamjr

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

Quote -- The Call: Encapsulate.

I am not quite sure what this means in this context. /images/graemlins/confused.gif
 

RogueTDI

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
Quote -- The Call: Encapsulate.

I am not quite sure what this means in this context. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Ditto. /images/graemlins/confused.gif



HOw about a link to the source please??
 

TDIMeister

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

Encapsulate -- as in put more sound deadening...
 

RogueTDI

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
Encapsulate -- as in put more sound deadening...

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my call - ignore Wards when it comes to diesel engines.

They have yet to put ANY modern diesels (like the extraordinarily wonderful V10 TDI) on their [meaningless]best engine lists.

And the engine noise of the 1.9L PD engine is negligible at best. At worst, it has a slightly DIFFERENT sound characteristic, and a slightly noisier idle. Perhaps slightly more vibration than the typical 4 banger, but that is also a very minor complaint, and can be remedied with balancer shafts like on the new Passat TDI. Otherwise, a fantastic engine.

Screw Wards - bias identified. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

Dunhamjr

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

When I drove a TDI PD Jetta, I thought the engine was quieter then the older TDI's I had driven. Maybe it wasnt quieter, it may just have been the tone of the idle but it was definitely a different sound.

I liked it just fine in both the TDI and TDI PD. No noise issues for me. Right now I have a 2.0 with a cut airbox, lumpy cam and a Magnaflow exhaust. Heck my car almost sounds like a diesel, at idle, right now. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also under load I thought the TDI PD was completely acceptable. Not loud or boomy. It almost sounded like a gasser.

You want loud my friend Ed's NB is on the loud side. Chip, injectors and a light flywheel make it REALLY sound like a diesel.
 

oilhammer

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Encapsulate -- as in put more sound deadening...

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my call - ignore Wards when it comes to diesel engines.

They have yet to put ANY modern diesels (like the extraordinarily wonderful V10 TDI) on their [meaningless]best engine lists.

And the engine noise of the 1.9L PD engine is negligible at best. At worst, it has a slightly DIFFERENT sound characteristic, and a slightly noisier idle. Perhaps slightly more vibration than the typical 4 banger, but that is also a very minor complaint, and can be remedied with balancer shafts like on the new Passat TDI. Otherwise, a fantastic engine.

Screw Wards - bias identified. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

rogue, Ward's is very pro-diesel, Drew Winter especially. The Contrarian (Flint, on the back page) is the only one that complains about them.

And the early TDI engine WAS one of their top 10 engines a few years back, and has enjoyed an honorable mention several times since. Also, nearly all of the truck diesels have been on the list at one time or another, with the next generation Cummins ISB gracing the list this time around.

The TDI is noisier around town than the gasser engined Volkswagens, but it is actually quieter inside the car than some other gassers (Saturn S bodies come to mind /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif).

Ward's is on our side, if you get the chance to read them regularly (I am a subscriber). In fact, I think Drew Winter was trying to attend a TDIfest at one time, and had a great writeup about the V10-equipped Phaeton in one issue. He said something about how he could not lift his head away from the headrest during the car's "space shuttle like" take-off! /images/graemlins/eek.gif

My take on the PD is that it has a more "tinny" sound to the engine than the older rotary-pump engine, but has a smoother and more linear power curve. I would not say it is noisier nor quieter really.
 

AutoDiesel

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

I think VW needs to do more than just "add sound deading".
I've recently have driven and/or ridden in a '03 Dodge Cummins and a Dodge Sprinter with comman rail injection.
World of difference compared to the older systems!
Even the older Mercedes E300's from the late nineties were QUIET compared to the current PD's or the rotary pump TDi's.
TDi's cannot compete when it comes to quietness compared to the latest and most modern comman rail injection systems.
TDi's at idle are about 59-db.
A typical gasser is about 40 to 45 db.
Even the new Mercedes E320 is only 44db at idle. That's only 2db different than their gasser.

Yes, folks. Noise is a big decision when people buy cars and VW hasn't done a very good job lately with their most popular cars, Golf and Jetta.
 

oilhammer

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

Those later E300's had a huge sound deadening panel that went all the way back under the transmission, almost to the middle of the car! Of course, they were well over 40 grand back then, hardly an even comparison to a 18k dollar Volkswagen today.

I'll bet the TDI Phaeton is pretty quiet inside!
 

TDIMeister

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

Bill Visnic is also very pro-TDI. In fact, he wrote an excellent article on the PD150 about 1 1/2 years ago if memory serves.

As another matter-of-fact, we had a direct correspondence a few months before TDIFest 2002 wherein I invited his presence. However, due to the schedule of the `Fest during the Labour Day weekend, and the last minute nature of my invitation, he had already committed to other plans but promised to, and I quote, "give you guys some ink on your event in a future issue {of the magazine}," which I never took up /images/graemlins/blush.gif

If the magazine itself gives any impression that it's anti-Diesel (which I don't think it is generally), perhaps it helps to remember where Ward's offices and editorial staff reside: in the Metro Detroit area. Also look at its predominant readership: North American auto industry insiders that are generally not very Diesel-aware...

Old stereotypes are hard to beat in both cases.
 

oilhammer

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

'meister, I think I have that article cut out laying somewhere around my mess of a computer room.

I remember reading about that car, the "GTI TDI 150", boy that's a mouthful!

What's funny about Ward's, is that even being in the heart of Motown, they seem to be pretty hard on the US carmakers, which I always find amusing.

I look forward to driving the new Passat TDI, even if it is bolted to a manditory slushbox /images/graemlins/mad.gif
 

RogueTDI

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Encapsulate -- as in put more sound deadening...

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my call - ignore Wards when it comes to diesel engines.

They have yet to put ANY modern diesels (like the extraordinarily wonderful V10 TDI) on their [meaningless]best engine lists.

And the engine noise of the 1.9L PD engine is negligible at best. At worst, it has a slightly DIFFERENT sound characteristic, and a slightly noisier idle. Perhaps slightly more vibration than the typical 4 banger, but that is also a very minor complaint, and can be remedied with balancer shafts like on the new Passat TDI. Otherwise, a fantastic engine.

Screw Wards - bias identified. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

rogue, Ward's is very pro-diesel, Drew Winter especially. The Contrarian (Flint, on the back page) is the only one that complains about them.

And the early TDI engine WAS one of their top 10 engines a few years back, and has enjoyed an honorable mention several times since. Also, nearly all of the truck diesels have been on the list at one time or another, with the next generation Cummins ISB gracing the list this time around.

The TDI is noisier around town than the gasser engined Volkswagens, but it is actually quieter inside the car than some other gassers (Saturn S bodies come to mind /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif).

Ward's is on our side, if you get the chance to read them regularly (I am a subscriber). In fact, I think Drew Winter was trying to attend a TDIfest at one time, and had a great writeup about the V10-equipped Phaeton in one issue. He said something about how he could not lift his head away from the headrest during the car's "space shuttle like" take-off! /images/graemlins/eek.gif

My take on the PD is that it has a more "tinny" sound to the engine than the older rotary-pump engine, but has a smoother and more linear power curve. I would not say it is noisier nor quieter really.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Point taken, but the reviewer that gave the above quotes in question - I dont trust.

The PD I drove in Germany (which I am quite certain is the same as our new 100hp PD) was a fair bit quieter than my rotary, although I am most familiar with my A3, which is less refined. However, I have driven an A4 rotary TDI, and I still say the PD is quieter.

I agree with your characterization - more "tinny." Different, not necessarily much quieter, but I say quieter nonetheless.
 
S

SkyPup

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

One word -> CETANE!!! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

All Wards needs is some high cetane diesel fuel instead of the low life rotgut they sell throughout most of the country..... /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

20IndigoBlue02

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Encapsulate -- as in put more sound deadening...

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my call - ignore Wards when it comes to diesel engines.

They have yet to put ANY modern diesels (like the extraordinarily wonderful V10 TDI) on their [meaningless]best engine lists.



[/ QUOTE ]

DAIMLERCHRYSLER
5.9L CUMMINS 600 OHV I-6 DIESEL
With DaimlerChrysler AG's “Cummins 600” 5.9L turbodiesel earning a win in this year's Ward's 10 Best Engines competition, it's official: in each of the last three years, there's been an all-new or significantly revised medium-truck diesel engine. Each year, that new diesel won a 10 Best award.

The breakneck pace of diesel development for the hotly contested, astoundingly profitable medium-truck market is the new world order. Sit back for six months to enjoy your position as king of horsepower or prince of torque and your competitors have passed you by. The numbers — and perhaps more important, the refinement — ratchet up that quickly in the medium-duty diesel game.

DaimlerChrysler and engine-development partner Cummins Inc. credit heavy reliance on computer analytical tools for the new Cummins 600's overnight burst from last in a three-way race (with General Motors Corp.'s Duramax and Ford Motor Co.'s International Truck and Engine Corp.-made Power Stroke V-8 turbodiesels) to front-runner in terms of both power/torque and refinement.

Dennis Hurst, Cummins' chief engineer for the Cummins 600, says the incredible NVH improvement the 5.9L inline 6-cyl. Cummins 600 displays over the previous-generation engine actually was a tertiary benefit of his team's pursuit of more power and precise combustion control that makes the engine 50-state emissions-compliant — without the use of expensive and troublesome add-on exhaust-gas recirculation systems rivals employ to reduce the excess oxides of nitrogen (NOx) emissions that plague all diesels.

So in one fell swoop, DC and Cummins went right ahead and tended to both the numbers and the NVH with the heavily revised Cummins 600. The new name reflects the class-leading torque rating of 600 lb.-ft (813 Nm). And the 325-hp rating isn't sissy stuff, either.

But we challenge even the most-sensitive of posteriors to tell the difference between 550 lb.-ft and 600 lb.-ft. of torque. At those levels, unless the differences are vast, it's hard to tell (and GM made late-in-the-year revisions to its Duramax that yield closely competitive 590 lb.-ft [800 Nm] and 310-hp ratings).

No, what blew away Ward's judges was the Cummins 600's almost unbelievable improvements in NVH and refinement. “This engine makes its two competitors seem like garbage-truck engines,” says one tester. “Even when you first start it on a cold morning, the Cummins lights off and settles into idle like a gasoline engine. It's remarkable.”

Hurst confirms the new Cummins 600's combustion noise is markedly reduced, and detail changes like a special noise-isolating valve cover and an optimized turbocharger blade design all contribute to noise and vibration reduction. Of course, the inherently balanced I-6 architecture also presents a fundamental advantage over its V-8 competitors.

And the high-tech combustion control (hundreds of thousands of new lines of ECU software code) that makes the Cummins 600 nationally emissions-certified is a huge matter, too. The only aftertreatment system for this engine is a relatively simple oxidation catalyst to control hydrocarbon and particulate emissions.

All we can say is “Wow.” One tester delivered our bottom-line impression regarding the new Cummins 600: “I could drive this truck every day, and I never would have said that before about a medium-duty diesel.”

Engine type: 5.9L OHV inline 6-cyl. turbodiesel
Displacement (cc): 5,883
Block/head material: cast iron/cast iron
Bore × stroke (mm): 102.1 × 119.9
Horsepower (SAE net): 325 @ 2,900 rpm
Torque: 600 lb.-ft. (813 Nm) @ 1,600 rpm
Specific output: 55 hp/L
Compression ratio: 17.2:1
Application tested: Dodge Ram Heavy Duty
Fuel economy for tested vehicle (EPA city/highway mpg): N/A

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_decade_best_2/index.htm
 

RogueTDI

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

Where is that "banghead" emote??

Siiiiiigghh...

I still dont trust Wards, but I stand corrected - I actually remember the Cummins now.
 

AxlesUp

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

noone i know has owned a diesel car and none of them can believe how quiet mine is. "are you sure thats a diesel" is a common quote. my pd is way more quiet than my toyota pickup or my brother's ford ranger both gas powered 4-bangers.

one of the main reasons i did not get a GTI VR6 was because i couldnt even tell it was running. it was too smooth to drive with a manual. i redlined it several times during the test drive without even knowing it.

as far as sound proofing? the VW is awesome. when driving in the rain i dont get the slightest hint of noise from water splashing in the wheel wells unlike many more expensive cars i have ridden in.

the thing is you have to compare an $18k golf with an $18k whatever not a $40-$100k european sedan. personally i prefer a little feedback from my car so i know whats going on.

now if i could just get rid of that rattle form the headliner/sunroof i would be real happy for now i just turn up the monsoon and forget about it..

Peace
Jw
 

RogueTDI

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

Well I'll be damned. /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Still, I dont think they give enough coverage and support of TDIs, considering some of Ward's "top 10" engines I have seen recently. What did they say about the V10 TDI I wonder? Now THAT is a gem of an engine. While Im sure the I6 Cummins is nice, I seriously doubt it is on par with the V10 TDI.

Attribute that to Detroit leanings. Leanings, bias, its all the same to me. The V10 just seems better than the Cummins if you ask me, and yet the Cummins gets the trophy. And hence, part of my reasoning. (and now someone will proceed to show me an article from Wards hailing the V10 /images/graemlins/grin.gif ).
 

oilhammer

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

Hey, rogue, no headbanging needed /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Point is, most of the automotive press is hard on diesels, and Ward's was really being pretty acurate on their comment on the noise of the TDI, seeing how many Americans would be turned off by just the slightest bit of noise.

Diesels in the average American consumer's eyes are still big, noisy, smoke belching ill-maintained dump trucks running very poor quality fuel pulling a heavy load up a hill. Sad, but true!

Fortunately everyone on this site knows better /images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

AutoDiesel

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
While Im sure the I6 Cummins is nice, I seriously doubt it is on par with the V10 TDI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not on par how?

I've driven my brothers '03 HO Dodge Cummins and that thing rock's!
It's quieter than the gas engine HEMI, it can light up the tires by barely pushing the throttle (putting it four-wheel drive solves that, but full throttle will light up all four tires!), it can carry six full-sized people easily, it has a bed that can carry 3500lb.s, can tow a real 9900lbs (he has the short wheelbase crew cab), and he only paid $35k on sale!

I could go out and pick up nice used '03 HO Dodge Cummins right now for about $30k and for another $700 dollars put in one of the new BanksPower Six-Gun systems and gain a instant +258 ft/lb of torque for a easy 800 ft/lb of torque!

I've gone and looked at a V8 Touaregs and I was going to make a comparison, but I won't. For what it costs it just doesn't compare. Plain and simple, it is just another fancy pants SUV that is to complicated for its' own good.
If you like vehicles like that, then go for it. But when I can spend $20k less and get a vehicle that can do 2 to 3 times the work I will go for the real truck!
 

oilhammer

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

The Volkswagen V10 TDI will not be considered for the 10 best engines list yet because it is not officially available here...wait 'til next year, though! /images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

AutoDiesel

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
The Volkswagen V10 TDI will not be considered for the 10 best engines list yet because it is not officially available here...wait 'til next year, though! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


The Ward's 10 Best Engines for 2004: (Engine and tested vehicle)
Audi AG 4.2L DOHC V-8 (S4)
BMW AG 3.2L DOHC I-6 (M3)
DaimlerChrysler AG 5.7L Hemi Magnum OHV V-8 (Dodge Ram)
DaimlerChrysler AG 5.9L Cummins 600 OHV I-6 turbodiesel (Dodge Ram Heavy Duty)
Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbocharged H-4 (Subaru WRX STi)
General Motors Corp. Vortec 4.2L DOHC I-6 (GMC Envoy)
Honda Motor Co. Ltd. 3L DOHC V-6 (Accord Coupe)
Mazda Motor Corp. 1.3L Renesis rotary (RX-8)
Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35)
Toyota Motor Corp. 1.5L DOHC I-4 Hybrid (Prius)
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_rotary_hybrid_engines/

We'll see.
The motor might be great but the vehicle doesn't make sense in my book.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
Plain and simple, it is just another fancy pants SUV that is to complicated for its' own good.
If you like vehicles like that, then go for it. But when I can spend $20k less and get a vehicle that can do 2 to 3 times the work I will go for the real truck!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. If you need a truck, get a real one. Who needs 550 lb-ft of torque in an SUV? Most people just drive them to get groceries or pick up their kids from soccer practice. Nobody is going to use a Toureg as a farm tractor. I would like to see a Toureg TDI chained to the bumper of a Dodge Cummins Diesel truck getting dragged around like a toy. Put a couple thousand pounds of ballast in the bed of the truck just to make sure it gets enough traction in the back. Before anyone starts trying to pretend that the Toureg would have a chance, don't bother. I have seen my friend's 1989 beater Dodge 3/4 Ton Cummins 4X4 win a tractor pull competition. It did a "full-pull" (300 feet) with a 26,000lb sled (the thing with the weight that moves further and further forward to make it harder and harder to pull). It was in some amateur pulling competition that was set up at a real truck and tractor pulling event in Calgary. In order to manage this he blocked up his springs so there would be no suspension travel, and he hung about 1000lbs off his front bumper (big bush bumper). His truck had 360,000km on it, and was just some beater that he got a good deal on. I'd like to see what the new ones would do!
 

RogueTDI

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

POwer is power. What its mounted in is something else, but the V10 TDI is a sweet ENGINE, and will match any Cummins or whatever else of similar power, given the right chassis mounting.

As for why you want 550lbs of torque in an SUV? Fun! Of course. And why not, class leading performance AND it STILL gets better mileage than pretty much every other SUV in its class. WHY NOT?! /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

zeratul

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

the new cummins has a 6 spd transmission and puts out over 600 ft pounds of torque. i own a tdi, but cummins is the best diesel engine out there, i have seen a cummins on a skytrack tow a broken down cement truck up a hill- all four tires were leaving black streaks
 

AutoDiesel

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
POwer is power. What its mounted in is something else, but the V10 TDI is a sweet ENGINE, and will match any Cummins or whatever else of similar power, given the right chassis mounting.

[/ QUOTE ]

But how long will it last?

As evidence in other posts I make I show that I do a lot of reading in the European market.

Let's just say that the V10 Touareg isn't any better than the typical VW no days in terms of reliability. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Here's one example....
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t69611.html
mauleskyrocket
The Toareg is the worst VW I have ever owned. It lives in the shop. Vw cannot make high end cars and their dealers can't service them.
------------------------------------------------------------
That is getting to be the norm "over there" with any car made by VW over $50k.


I know a couple of RV'ers that have literally pulled fifth-wheel trailers in the 15k lb range over 300k each (snowbirds) with their Cummins diesels with ZERO breakdowns.
 

RogueTDI

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Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
POwer is power. What its mounted in is something else, but the V10 TDI is a sweet ENGINE, and will match any Cummins or whatever else of similar power, given the right chassis mounting.

[/ QUOTE ]

But how long will it last?

As evidence in other posts I make I show that I do a lot of reading in the European market.

Let's just say that the V10 Touareg isn't any better than the typical VW no days in terms of reliability. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Here's one example....
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t69611.html
mauleskyrocket
The Toareg is the worst VW I have ever owned. It lives in the shop. Vw cannot make high end cars and their dealers can't service them.
------------------------------------------------------------
That is getting to be the norm "over there" with any car made by VW over $50k.


I know a couple of RV'ers that have literally pulled fifth-wheel trailers in the 15k lb range over 300k each (snowbirds) with their Cummins diesels with ZERO breakdowns.

[/ QUOTE ]


I am sure the Cummins diesels are great. And when it comes to "heavy duty" diesels, they probably have better expertise.

But when it comes to light and moderate duty diesel engines, AND advanced technology, sorry guys, no American manufacturer can touch European diesel tech, including especially VW diesel tech. AND if VW tries to make a heavy duty diesel, I am sure they can make it better than a Cummins. Not a doubt in my mind - they are some of the top experts in diesel tech. Trying to impune VW diesel know-how is retarded, and anyone who knows their stuff isnt going to be persuaded by some irrelevant report of making 4 burnout marks. Like, how do we know the V10 TDI Touareg wont do the same? /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif When it comes to advanced tech and diesel engine superiority, I will take a VW diesel any day over a Cummins.

Autodiesel, you seem to be jumping on the VW demagoging bandwagon. Implying that VW diesels are crap in terms of reliability?!? Sorry dude, if you believe that, you dont have a clue.

I have never had inherent reliability problems with my TDI or my n/a 1.6L IDI diesel. And from general experience, VW diesels, and heck,VW engines in general, are bullet-proof as far as the block/head and internals are concerned.

I am NOT talking about the Touareg. I am talking about the diesel engine.

Again, when it comes to literally lugging tons of cargo, I dont doubt the Cummins are great, and that is what they are made for.

But the V10 is a new engine, and you have no idea what its long term reliability is. Suggesting otherwise makes your opinion in this regard totally suspect to me.

As far as specs go, which is pretty much all we have to go on right now until some genuine long term results (like >100kmi operation) come back, the V10 TDI seems superior. V10 TDI makes greater specific HP and torque than the comparable Cummins I6 that got the Ward's Top 10 award, and does so with cleaner emissions. The V10 is probably quieter/smoother combustion-wise (I cant speak on this with auhority, but the V10 is getting great NVH comments, although the Cummins is also). It is also lighter I believe, with aluminum head and I believe a mostly-aluminum block (there has been some debate on this around here).

And that example thread is ridiculous - the board is not the best. There are no time stamps or anything, so dont know how old that is (I would like to know how long that Touareg owner has allowed the evidence challenge to go uncontested). A classic bunch of doubters who might automatically assume an MB or BMW is better than a VW. All of the people seem to like the Touareg and have nothing bad to say about it or the V10. Then somebody baselessly says his Touareg is junk and "lives in the shop" without any explanation or whatnot, and that is your evidence? What are you smoking Autodiesel? Perhaps he got a lemon. Perhaps he is just a hater. Who knows, there are certainly a lot of them around. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Branding all Touaregs as crap is idiotic, and I would be a fool to believe such nonsense based on one person's supposed experience.

Im sorry, but you just sound like any other typical VW-hating whiner, and I dont base that statement on this thread only. You have made several baseless attacks on VW quality around here. And just because you may own a VW or a TDI, it doesnt make you an expert or validate your attitude. You seem happy to hail any disatisfied supposed VW owner as a clear sign that VW is junk. But that is a far cry from a convincing case for VW quality problems, which I agree they have.

PS:Touareg is getting automotive awards left and right.
 

newbie203

Active member
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Location
Stamford CT
TDI
Golf 2004 GL TDI, Blue Anth,
Ward\'s AutoWorld comments about the PD

by far the coolest thing about the Toureg is the adjustable ride height. no other suv has that and it makes a lot of sense. otherwise Suv's suck
 
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