To B4 or B5?

I am new to the forum and making a choice on a TDI.
I am looking at a B4 with 168K that has been treated right (according to the records) and has alot of new parts incl timing belt, all filters ect...

The B5 I am about to go test drive has 118K some new parts but not the BSM/camshaft thing i keep reading about and not the timing belt.

The price for either car is the same although I will have to travel to get the B4

I keep reading about both modules needing alot of work on them in general.

Is there one which is lower maintenence? Or is it just a matter of opinion/taste??? I am also looking at Jetta's from both periods.
Thanks

The B5 is a better platform once the kink$ are worked out. But the B4 is a little bigger, gets better mpg, is a std rather than an automatic. In the worst case, if you did a manual conversion, a BSM delete, and all the other more mundane updates, you might get set back $3000- $3500 while ending up with a long lasting B5.

BTW, B4s are also notorious for cluster failures which can result in incorrect mileage, so be sure you can confirm the mileage.

Personally, I wouldn't want a B4 (too old in my opinion, but I am also in a rust state). If you post the same question on the B4 FORUMS, they would probably tell you to go with the B4.

If both vehicles were the same age, the B4 would likely have lower maintenance costs. With the B4 7-9 years older, I would think maintenance costs would be similar.

If low maintenance is a priority, get a jetta or golf with the exception of an 99-03 automatic.

Realistically, your looking at cars that are 10-18 years old, regardless of how they've been treated, things will fail.

God luck!

They are very different cars. Transmission aside, the B4 is noisier, slower, gets better FE, and parts are far less expensive. B4 is easier to maintain, too. But you have to like a 16 year old car with all its quirks, and they have them. If I had to choose I'd take a B4 over a B5.5 But I'd take an A4 Golf over either of them.

Thanks for the info! So glad I joined this forum before buying. Are there any automatic B4's?
This B4 comes with:
new timing belt, new tensioner, new serpentine belt, new water pump, new valve cover gasket, cleaned intake manifold, serviced turbo, inner cooler and injection pump, new air filter, new fuel filter, new cabin filter, new glow plugs, new German color coded synthetic vacuum hoses, new return fuel lines, new bio-fuel lines, engine flush-new German Pentosin synthetic oil, new filter, flushed cooling system-new VW G12+ phosphate free coolant, new coolant reservoir with sending unit, new diesel "Alaskan" battery, new brakes and wheel bearings.
I drove an 05.5 Jetta today instead of the B5. He said the Engine is the 1.9 "Little Pumper"? type. I am wondering if that version is less likely to have the Cam shaft/BSM problem that I keep reading about in the 05-06??? it has 118K and drove great. smelled a little exhaust from under the hood while running but almost no smell out the pipe and no visible exhaust. It is an automatic. Good pick-up and power for diesel.

John: "If low maintenance is a priority, get a jetta or golf with the exception of an 99-03 automatic." Why is the Jetta more reliable? The main issue I have with the 1 I drove today is the trunk space. I need more room for instruments and Amps.
Also where is a good place on this forum that compares the cargo capacity specs on the different models.
Big thanks!!

IndigoBlueWagon said:

They are very different cars. Transmission aside, the B4 is noisier, slower, gets better FE, and parts are far less expensive. B4 is easier to maintain, too. But you have to like a 16 year old car with all its quirks, and they have them. If I had to choose I'd take a B4 over a B5.5 But I'd take an A4 Golf over either of them.

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I can deal with quirks having had never had a car newer than 1990. I really need to drive the B4. how much slower is the B4 than B5 on a scale of 1-10 with one being an old non-turbo and 10 being the B5?
Sorry for all the questions. There isn't a B4 to drive local so I want to be pretty sure before flying up to WA.

TDI stands for Turbodiesel Direct Injection, so they all have turbos. B4 has a wastegated turbo instead of variable vane. And a 1.9L Jetta is a Pumpe Deuse, using unit injectors instead of a larger rotary pump. B5.5 has the same injection system. The 1.9 doesn't have a balance shaft, but it is equally, if not more, prone to cam wear.

I have one of each.



I like them both, as they both have plusses and minuses.

The B5 is definetly more refined, has more power (factory), and has a better ride.

The B4 is larger (about an inch more rear leg room, same elbow room, and the cargo area has about the same volume, but is a little taller and a little narrower (wagon).

To get my B4 "where I wanted it", I put injectors and a tune in it, as well as larger brakes in the front. There has been a lot of catch-up maintenance in addition to that, but you will get that in either car.

I'm just finishing converting my b5 to a standard after deleting the BSM.

Which would I choose? I'm hoping I don't have to - but my wife may force the issue since I truly do not need two cars...

Out of curiosity, are you buying the b4 from the green car company?

Yawiney said:

John: "If low maintenance is a priority, get a jetta or golf with the exception of an 99-03 automatic." Why is the Jetta more reliable? The main issue I have with the 1 I drove today is the trunk space. I need more room for instruments and Amps.
Also where is a good place on this forum that compares the cargo capacity specs on the different models.
Big thanks!!

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Jettas or Golfs for that matter, are simpler, with less to go wrong.

BTW, I have a 99 Golf, 04 jetta, and 05 an Passat with 235,000 220,000 and 195,000 miles, respectively.

The Passat rides likes its brand new but I paid around $1000 to get half of the control arms replaced recently. $1000 into the suspension of a golf or Jetta will repalce almost every front and rear suspension component. B5 Passat outer CV boots are also prone to failure, usually fail between 60 and 100 thousand miles.

As far as the cam is concerned on the 04,-06 jettas and Golfs, It's about a $1000 repair if needed, which is not that bad.

Finally, with any automatic with 150,000 plus miles, you always have to take into account the possibility that it could fail.

Remember, VWs are not Toyotas. Low maintenance does not mean no maintenance.

Those wagons sure look nice Windex! I was more curious about trunk space in the sedan but if I found an affordable wagon i would check it out. Is there Anywhere that compares specs of different models and years that would list the cubic feet of trunk space??

@ Montezuma the B4 is @ nice cars (please don't steal it) - 80 Dasher diesel was my 1st car!

Thanks Johnboy for the comparison and the good news of the cam not being so bad. I just read on this forum to stay away from B5's unless the balance shaft (iirc) has been converted from chain-driven to gear driven. I was told this is an expensive one. With the trunk space not much bigger than the Jettas, I am looking back at manuals (97-8 Jetta or B4) or trying to find an affordable 09> Jetta. havn't looked into 99-04's. Have you has your Golf and Jetta for a while? What about trunk space in those years on the Jetta?
If the 05.5 Jetta I drove yesturday had abigger trunk I would buy it and do the timing belt. Here's the link for anyone interested: http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4422664637.html

Just made an appt. to see this B5 tomorrow:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/4438770389.html
Seems as gas prices soar so do the prices of these cars. At least here in CA.

B4 or B5? I really like my B4. However, it's age is also dictated by replacement parts. I'm finally getting around to replacing the actuator for HVAC recirculation. It's NLA and can only find it on eBay across the pond. I'm going to be visiting scrap yards in a few days to try and tear a few from some Jettas.

A cleaned up B5 will last you longer because it's younger and you won't have to deal with parts going NLA. Unless you want a "classic" don't go with a B4, imho. Though it is nice not needing to smog my car here in SoCal.

I just asked about the dealer because I have read mixed reviews on these guys. Might do a search on here or myturbodiesel for that company. Besides I love my b5 and my wife would not be pleased with a reduction in safety features. My first car was a 68 Baja bug, then my 92 cummins and the 81 caddy. Dad had the rest of the Veedubs and the Mitsubishi diesels, but he has passed on now, so the wife and I have started consolidating the old IDI's and making some good runners out of em.

I recommend the B5.5 even with its BSM and automatic, it's a newer, much quiter and nicer car. The B4, in its time was probably a better car overall. A B4 with all the heater box door covering issues can be made to be nice and reliable but finding one with under 300k miles might be tough and you still have the inherrent quirks to deal with. Either way, try to get one that a true TDI lover has kept up with and pay a little more for it. I agree with some of the other posters that the A4 is probably the best overall with a 5sp of course. The 2003 is the best of the A4s spoken by many as the nirvana of all TDIs. The golf is the most fun and utilitarian of the A4s too with its hatcback and 2 or 4 dr option..

50harleyrider said:

I recommend the B5.5 even with its BSM and automatic, it's a newer, much quiter and nicer car. The B4, in its time was probably a better car overall. A B4 with all the heater box door covering issues can be made to be nice and reliable but finding one with under 300k miles might be tough and you still have the inherrent quirks to deal with. Either way, try to get one that a true TDI lover has kept up with and pay a little more for it. I agree with some of the other posters that the A4 is probably the best overall with a 5sp of course. The 2003 is the best of the A4s spoken by many as the nirvana of all TDIs. The golf is the most fun and utilitarian of the A4s too with its hatcback and 2 or 4 dr option..

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B5.5? Would that be 2nd half of 05-06? I am going to look at an 04. Any tips on what to ask/check for that would be different from the later years?

As for the jettas, I have been trying to find the specs for trunk space for the 03. I think it is the smaller 13 cu. ft. one in those years untill 05.5 and 06 which are 16 cu. ft. That larger size dosen't come back again untill 2013 as far as research shows. I need the boot space for amps and instruments ect.. that don't fit in the small one.

Passats were B5.5s starting in 2001.5. TDIs were in '04 and '05 only. If you need a bigger trunk in a Jetta look for an '05.5 MKV car or later. Trunk is huge.

Yes. Looking into those Jettas. Apparently they had 2 options for the automatic trans and one had alot of probs. i'd like to aviod this if I can find out before buying. Also it seems the trunks in Passats in those years were only slightly smaller. 15.5 cu ft. vs 16

All MKV and later Jetta TDIs have DSG transmssions. And they aren't very troublesome, although it's pretty universal that the dual mass flywheel in front of the transmission fails before 200K.

Check out the buyers guide on myturbodiesel.com it's really good.

Yawiney said:

@ Montezuma the B4 is @ nice cars (please don't steal it)

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4422664637.html

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I would do some reading over at the B4 forum before you travel to Nice Cars...Seems those cars aren't all they appear.

Between the B4 and B5
It is my opinion that mileage and use being equal, the B5 has been out and about for many years less, which may mean less part replacement for a while.
If the mileage difference was substantial that might help the decision, so it might be worth waiting for better options if you don't need to buy right now.

Every model Passat and Jetta you are looking at has their quirks, just like every other car out there.
The good thing is that the major problems have been identified and options for remedying them are also available.

Whenever buying a used vehicle expect to pay upfront for repair and maintenance costs. For the B5 that means a BSM delete, cam swap, and a transmission (eventually, at this point it is around the normal failure point anyway)
All of these would be about $3500 at some point in the car's life. Probably sooner than later given the mileage. But once those are taken care of you have a long lasting car.

Spring1898 said:

Between the B4 and B5
It is my opinion that mileage and use being equal, the B5 has been out and about for many years less, which may mean less part replacement for a while.
If the mileage difference was substantial that might help the decision, so it might be worth waiting for better options if you don't need to buy right now.

Every model Passat and Jetta you are looking at has their quirks, just like every other car out there.
The good thing is that the major problems have been identified and options for remedying them are also available.

Whenever buying a used vehicle expect to pay upfront for repair and maintenance costs. For the B5 that means a BSM delete, cam swap, and a transmission (eventually, at this point it is around the normal failure point anyway)
All of these would be about $3500 at some point in the car's life. Probably sooner than later given the mileage. But once those are taken care of you have a long lasting car.

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Well said! I chose a B5.5 over a new one and just put the new bsm gears in and never looked back!

I hate to say it but the B5.5 is a much better handling and comfortable car than the B4 or NMS. If someone ever tried doing a full chassis sound deadening procedure on the B5.5, I hop[e they post it up. That would eliminate the only advantage the NMS has other than the sweet 6 sp it comes with and of course the newer electronics. Even those are offset by the stupid adblue and B5 mix I have to deal with.

I'm not only keeping my B5 forever, I just bought another one! It's a gasser, though.

I liked my B4, though. It was roomier, since its boxy shape body allowed for more headroom, better trunk space and opening, etc.

But the newest B4 TDI is still going to be a whole seven years older than the oldest B5 TDI, and Volkswagen has essentially obsoleted the entire car along with the A3, so parts can be unobtainium.

They are both good cars, though. The B4 will use less fuel, but it will be slower.

B5.5 is the one platform TDI I've not owned, but I did drive an Audi A4 (same platform) for 6 years. It was a nice car. However, the B5.5 has too many strikes against it to make a good long-term car, IMO. Setting aside the balance shaft issue, since once it's fixed it's fixed, cam wear, regular engine mount failure, the most expensive intercooler hoses in the VW world (that I'm aware of), 8 control arms that need to be replaced instead of getting new bushings, and, of course, that transmission. Mediocre fuel economy and tight back seat and trunk are the kickers. I'd rather have a MKV Jetta (and I don't love those). And wait until you see the updated '15 Jetta sedan. Both better cars and both available with manual transmissions. And the JSW would be a better option than the B5.5 wagon, gas or diesel. Just my .02.

I switched over from driving the Golf to the Passat when my son came home for the weekend at Easter and I finally took off the snow tires. I still haven't gone back to the Golf. I'm enjoying my control arms.

I know the B4 Passats have more rear leg room, but almost any adult who has ridden in the back seat has commented that they found it had plenty of legroom. Sitting 3 abreast is another story and my kids complain about that all the time.

My kids used to complain bitterly about riding long distances in the back of my Jetta Wagon. My benchmark for rear seating space is a coach class airline seat. And even the MKIV cars have that beat.

They both have flaws obviously. I was about to pull the trigger on a B5.5 TDI, but then decided against it. A) Initial purchase cost was going to make me have to get a loan (and the whole reason for getting another vehicle is to sell our Excursion as I'm trying to cut back on monthly expenses). The loan would have been slightly less expensive, but we would have saved in fuel. B) Cost of maintaince. Every used car you buy generally needs some things replaced. In the B5.5 corner, some of those items are very costly.

Basically, I ended up with a B4V because I found a killer deal (original owner, needing a lot of work, 200K, Texas car-No Rust!) and because I'm a cheap SOB. Including purchase price, I think I'm into ours for about $3000, and I would drive it anywhere. It still needs about another $1000 into it to get it exactly where I want it (shocks/Struts, rear end bushings, tune, injectors, bigger brakes). You would be hard pressed to find a B5.5 for twice that amount, and then you would have to deal with all of the things that need to be addressed on it. But, parts are hard to find for it. I would either want to get a gasser wagon for parts (usually 1000-1500 here) or keep browsing Ebay-Germany for used parts.

Yes they are slow. Its not the slowest vehicle I've ever driven, but its certainly around that. I've never done a 0-60 in it, but I'm sure its 13-15 seconds in its current form. Thats pretty slow!

Amended*
I'm not saying the B4 is better, I highly doubt it is. If both a B4 and B5.5 were in tip top shape with nothing wrong at the time of comparison, I'm sure the B5.5 would win overall in just about any category (minus fuel economy and a few others). I got a B4 because it fit my needs better than a B5.5. I would have liked a B5.5 more so, but not my wallet (just looking at purchase cost).

160k miles, my B5 has gotten the balance shaft upgrade, and the newer alternator pulley (which while BHW-specific part, is no different in need than any other TDI). It still has its original mounts, original charge air cooler bits, original transmission.... pretty much everything aside from PM items is original. I also put the newer type glowplugs in, again, not something really BHW-specific.

The engine doesn't leak anything, doesn't require any oil added between 10k services, starts instantly even in the -20F winter we just had, and can return 40 MPG tanks (hwy) pretty consistently. And thanks to Rocketchip, it is pretty quick, especially on the highway. 80 to 120 is amazingly smooth and effortless.

I have also upgraded to Billy HD shocks. Still has all of its original steering and suspension bits, all original brakes. One door latch (LR), a few bulbs, a battery, and just recently the original Valeo alternator called it quits (I replaced it with a Bosch). Which is a 15 minute job on the BHW.

I did proactively replace my original outer CV boots at 100k, but the originals never did split. This, too, is about as easy as can be on the BHW Passat.

No sqeaks, no rattles, no nothing. Still has doors that close like a bank vault, and rides just like its big Audi brothers. It is easily the best car I have ever owned.

Based on the customers we talk to your experience is not typical, just like how my wagon has a protective cone over it. They are nice cars to drive, if you can get past the transmission, but when they break they cost more than your average VW, probably because it's really an Audi.