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VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old November 12th, 2017, 09:44   #1
lamboworld
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Default BRM Cam - when to replace?

I had my original cam replaced at 197k with the Estas Billet cam that IDparts sells and I currently have 262k miles on my car.

I don't have any timing tools but I did pull the valve cover and I noticed that some of the lobes had wear on them. The lobes have some uneven wear with some flat spots, but my car drives fine. I wasn't able to turn the engine over by hand so I was only able to inspect what was showing.

There is 65k miles on this cam and I have replaced the oil every 10k miles with Rotella 5w40.

I don't think that the cam will make it another through another timing belt change and I guess that I probably should just change the cam now. I have decided to go with the Colt stage 2 cam because Kerma has them on sale and an additional coupon code.

I am curious if any Colt stage 2 owners have had failures.

Also, since my lifters and bearings don't have many miles on them do they need to be changed.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 11:13   #2
crazyrunner33
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Cam, lifters and bearings should be installed together. Even if your lifters and bearings are fine, they'll have some wear and won't be the true Cockford-Ollie that the new camshaft needs.

Where are you located? I might have the tools you need and can lend them if you're close by.

Out of curiosity, how did you break in your cam?
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Old November 12th, 2017, 12:05   #3
lamboworld
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrunner33 View Post
Cam, lifters and bearings should be installed together. Even if your lifters and bearings are fine, they'll have some wear and won't be the true Cockford-Ollie that the new camshaft needs.

Where are you located? I might have the tools you need and can lend them if you're close by.

Out of curiosity, how did you break in your cam?
I am close to you in Harrisburg, NC. I figured that I would need to replace the lifters and bearings at the same time but I figured I would ask.

I have no idea why my cam has wear on it with only 65k miles. I am sure that I could probably get another 40k to 50k miles on it but I don't think that it will make it through another timing belt cycle so I figured that I would just replace it now, since I am due for a timing belt change.

I am running a PD140 turbo and a Malone stage 4 tune, so maybe that added to the wear on my cam but who knows. I have only been running this new turbo for the last 15k and before then, I was running a Malone 1.5 tune on the stock turbo.

I can get 43mpg going 80+ on the interstate with some city driving. I couldn't be happier with this car and I am willing to put some more money in it if I can get another 5 to 6 years out of it.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 12:12   #4
IndigoBlueWagon
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You should have someone look at the cam and see if it's actually worn or if what you're observing is some discoloration at the lobes that's harmless. If the lifters look good then the latter is possible.

And not to get into an oil war, but Rotella T6, while it's a good oil, does not carry the 505.01 spec your engine requires. I'd suggest using a 5w40 oil with the 505.01 certification like Pentosin HP2.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 12:20   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
You should have someone look at the cam and see if it's actually worn or if what you're observing is some discoloration at the lobes that's harmless. If the lifters look good then the latter is possible.

And not to get into an oil war, but Rotella T6, while it's a good oil, does not carry the 505.01 spec your engine requires. I'd suggest using a 5w40 oil with the 505.01 certification like Pentosin HP2.
Clearly, I am going to switch to a different oil because I don't want replace another cam. A local TDI mechanic suggests adding a ZDDP additive to every oil change.

What I am seeing is not discoloration. I can feel that some of the lobes are no longer smooth like they should be. I plan to take off my intake manifold again this afternoon for another look.

I am curious why the cam inspection diy suggests that you have to remove the timing belt to turn the engine. Why not just disconnect the electrical connection to the injectors and just turn the motor over with the key/starter until you get the cam where you want it.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 12:28   #6
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mobil tdt is all you need. change the cam when you start seeing symptoms.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 12:45   #7
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The article must be incorrect if it says that you need to removing the timing belt to turn the engine. I prefer rotating the engine with the timing belt on since I'm not a fan of the valves going all smasy smashy. The only time that you need to rotate the two independently is to retime the engine after a cam change, or timing belt change.

I use the same oil as narongc73, but Peter's suggestion is also good. No ZDDP additive for mine, even when installing the new cam. Some swear by it, others say it's not necessary with the black coated lifters. People on both camps have examples of cams running over 300k with their preferred method.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 13:08   #8
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Not much of an inspection of the lifters if you didn't turn the engine over by hand. That is easily done with a 19MM socket on the crankshaft bolt. Make sure to turn the crank in the direction of engine rotation and that the car is in neutral if it is a stick.

If you do decide to change the cam, give this guy a call.

Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
FranksTDIs@sbcglobal.net

He has done some re-engineering on the oiling of the fragile PD cams. Franks wife does most of the phone work and can answer a lot of your questions and if not, Frank is usually right in the shop.

I don't use VW 505.01 oil, I use Schauffer's 9000 5W40 which is highly recommended by Frank. It is spec-ed as a heavy duty truck oil meeting the European Spec ACEA E7-12 and E9-12 and several others. http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/244-9000-td.pdf
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Last edited by Ol'Rattler; November 12th, 2017 at 13:36.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 13:30   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboworld View Post
I am curious why the cam inspection diy suggests that you have to remove the timing belt to turn the engine. Why not just disconnect the electrical connection to the injectors and just turn the motor over with the key/starter until you get the cam where you want it.
It sounds like the article might be for replacing the cam, not inspecting it. To remove the cam, with the engine at TDC you remove the T/B and turn the crank 90 degrees CCW and then turn the cam 90 degrees CCW so that the tandem pump drive on the cam clears the tandem pump.

For inspection purposes you can turn from the cam if you turn CCW. However if the cam bolt is not properly torqued, it could loosen. Contrary to some recommendations this will not put additional stress on the belt or tensioner or cause the engine to jump time. For setting the timing after a T/B and/or cam change always do your final checks turning from the crank CW.

Turning the engine with the starter is pretty much a waste of time. It is better to turn it over by hand so you have good control over the engines position.

Could you link to the article?
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DC stage 1 SMF Clutch
Draw-Tite hitch
Dash Tray
Blue tint aspherical mirrors
Euro Cupholder
Euro Light Switch
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VCDS Hacks: DRL Disabled-Seatbelt Chime Disabled-Key fob Power Windows
Adjusted Cam to Crank Timing

Last edited by Ol'Rattler; November 12th, 2017 at 13:40.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 15:09   #10
lamboworld
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Okay I was able to spin the cam over by turning the passenger tire in 5th and it actually looks pretty IMO. There are only two lobes that have any wear that is noticeable.










Last edited by lamboworld; November 12th, 2017 at 15:19.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 15:23   #11
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Here are a few more pics while I was in my garage. I recently bought a MKV GTI steering wheels because my steering wheel was falling apart. Also, has anyone ever added a shot of nitrous to their tdi.
That bottle is meant this engine. This motor is an LS7 that puts down about 600whp and 530wtq on 93 octane and north of 900whp and wtq on that bottle.



Last edited by lamboworld; November 12th, 2017 at 15:33.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 17:52   #12
N.CaTDI
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Just replaced my cam about 10k ago at 200k yours looks like it has a lot of life still in it. That looks about what mine looked like at 50k or so. At that time I switched to Mobile 1 in that the car was out of warranty.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 03:24   #13
Ol'Rattler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboworld View Post
Here are a few more pics while I was in my garage. I recently bought a MKV GTI steering wheels because my steering wheel was falling apart. Also, has anyone ever added a shot of nitrous to their tdi.
That bottle is meant this engine. This motor is an LS7 that puts down about 600whp and 530wtq on 93 octane and north of 900whp and wtq on that bottle.


Didn't happen unless you post your address and when you go on vacation.

Seriously, see the chamfers on the lobes? On a worn cam those chamfers will be worn away to a sharp edge. And ya. You may find wear on only 1 or 2 lobes.

While your in there, check for missing oil gallery plugs from the injector rocker assemblies. The are about 1/8 inch in diameter and about 3/4 of an inch long. At about 88K miles when I replaced my cam I found 2 of them sitting in the top of head bolts. Oh, and I didn't see any of those plugs in the pics.
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2006 Jetta TDI
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DC stage 1 SMF Clutch
Draw-Tite hitch
Dash Tray
Blue tint aspherical mirrors
Euro Cupholder
Euro Light Switch
2nd grocery hook
VCDS Hacks: DRL Disabled-Seatbelt Chime Disabled-Key fob Power Windows
Adjusted Cam to Crank Timing

Last edited by Ol'Rattler; November 13th, 2017 at 03:31.
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