Correct. The vehicle may not qualify to participate for the AEM under the settlement terms, but it should still be eligible under any separate recall efforts.
VW Rejecting Non-Clean Titles?
- Thread starter duratitus
- Start date
Jkhalil123
Well-known member
we can do lawsuit against Volkswagen 2.0 after one year asking us now rebuilt titles
Yes, the MI means it was totaled in Michigan.
Well I didn't receive an email, but my claim has the request to submit Proof of Vehicle Operability. The claims chat person was the very definition of 'thick.'
So I'm going with:
A copy of the previous owner's title showing when it was put back in service
A copy of the State of Illinois Disclosure of Rebuilt Vehicle Status which states 'A vehicle for which a salvage certificate has been issued which subsequently has been put back into its original condition by a licensed rebuilder '
A copy of the passed emmissions inspection report
A copy of certificate of registration to a license plate
Any wagers on what percent chance I have for getting rejected? I bet it's pretty high. Maybe I should just go ask the police department to issue me a citation for a broken tail light to prove it's out on the road.
So I'm going with:
A copy of the previous owner's title showing when it was put back in service
A copy of the State of Illinois Disclosure of Rebuilt Vehicle Status which states 'A vehicle for which a salvage certificate has been issued which subsequently has been put back into its original condition by a licensed rebuilder '
A copy of the passed emmissions inspection report
A copy of certificate of registration to a license plate
Any wagers on what percent chance I have for getting rejected? I bet it's pretty high. Maybe I should just go ask the police department to issue me a citation for a broken tail light to prove it's out on the road.
fookin
Veteran Member
I still have an issue with this new settlement decision below.
Page 40 of the Feb 2018 claims supervisor report...
(iii) Owners of used vehicles that were purchased with a branded title and had a “salvage rebuilt” or equivalent title as of February 26, 2018, are potentially eligible for Vehicle Value
The problem is that 12 months ago I chatted with VW settlement and they told me if the website allows me to file a claim then I'd get whatever buyback figure that was presented. They wouldn't tell me then if there was a prior restitution claim that would have changed my decision to buy the car. It turns out in later chats, after I got the car 2 months later, that there was a prior restitution claim and that was the time everything was put on hold. I'm not gonna do anything about and I'm just gonna take what they give me but I feel a little deceived.
Page 40 of the Feb 2018 claims supervisor report...
(iii) Owners of used vehicles that were purchased with a branded title and had a “salvage rebuilt” or equivalent title as of February 26, 2018, are potentially eligible for Vehicle Value
The problem is that 12 months ago I chatted with VW settlement and they told me if the website allows me to file a claim then I'd get whatever buyback figure that was presented. They wouldn't tell me then if there was a prior restitution claim that would have changed my decision to buy the car. It turns out in later chats, after I got the car 2 months later, that there was a prior restitution claim and that was the time everything was put on hold. I'm not gonna do anything about and I'm just gonna take what they give me but I feel a little deceived.
gmoldovan
Active member
Alright so I'm confused. I'm in California, I have 3 cars, all salvage title, all fixed, all registered and running. The titles all say salvage. The only distinction california makes with regard to this are "salvage":cars that were totaled, and "revived salvage:" cars that were totaled but repaired and registered. So which camp do I fall in? is "revived salvage" the same as "rebuilt salvage?" And my title is obviously gonna say salvage, they dont send out a new title just because you registered the car and I don't think VW has access to see which of our cars are registered salvage and which are just sitting in people's yards salvages.
You're looking for a Revived salvage—“A salvage vehicle which has been repaired and registered with DMV." Which is the equivalent of a rebuilt title. Do you have a REG 31 for the vehicles? This will be your proof that the vehicles passed a DMV or CHP inspection.
bizzle
Veteran Member
California does send out new titles after a vehicle is totaled. More accurately, the previous owner/insurance co. surrendered the title to the DMV and received a certificate of salvage. That certificate of salvage would then be turned in with the required documents after the inspections and fees were paid for a new title resulting in what you have in your hand: a title with a salvage brand.
I don't know why the DMV literature discusses "revived salvage" titles because I have never seen that branding on a title. That may be true if a vehicle is totaled in California and then put back on the road in California, but for any out of state transfer into the state with a branded title I've only ever seen the California title state: "Salvage." The fact that you have a title, have insurance (provided it's in California and you informed your insurance company that the vehicle is salvaged), and current California registration is a strong indicator that your vehicle is roadworthy.
gmoldovan
Active member
It looks to me like the REG 31 is done by the inspection place (brake and lights) or the DMV so I've never had that in hand. But it makes sense that it was done if I have current registration no?
All of the above are true. But I have a friend in CA whose car has just gotten denied as ineligible and his car is in the exact same place as mine: registered and daily driver. I'm wondering if VW is blanket denying anything that is called "salvage" without considering the fact that it is actually rebuilt and road worthy (they've been daily drivers for my family). This whole "salvage" vs "salvage rebuilt" is as murky as possible. Maybe other states have a distinction between the two but I don't see california as having one. Maybe appeal after they get denied?
fookin
Veteran Member
I blame VW for muddying the salvage discussion. Different states may have different nomenclature for the same thing and VW should know about that. Especially with the most populous state, CA, stating something is "salvage" does not differentiate if it's salvage certificate or salvage title in Ca. Ca's "salvage title" is a bona fide registration/title in the state of CA, however.
bizzle
Veteran Member
I suspect that's the issue. If you appeal, it might be a good idea to include a copy of a sample certificate of salvage so they have evidence of the difference. If they just look it up, they're going to find that misleading information on the DMV website.
That "spirit of the agreement" cuts both ways. They used it to deny people eligibility despite original plain language to the contrary but now they'd have to include yours (as a salvage vehicle put back into service) regardless of the plain language on the title. It's difficult to say what happened with your buddy's car because you and I don't know all of the details. When I first wrote my response to you, I used the phrase "strong indicator" rather than proof or something along those lines because branding status can slip through the cracks. Insurance agencies might catch that you have a branded title and you wouldn't know they weren't covering you until you were in an accident and it came up during an in-depth review of the accident and policy coverage. Years ago, my wife brought her totaled Geo into California and the Reconstructed brand dropped off the title. When we decided to sell it, we weren't sure how to disclose the title issue to any potential California buyers. Our friends wanted to buy it for their son back in Oregon and I believe the brand was placed back on their title when they transferred it back into their state.
That's also the reason I wrote that you made sure the insurance company knew of the branding status and that you don't just assume they know. All of those factors are evidence to VW that you either got the car up or received it in operable condition. The website is clearly inaccurate or talking about a different scenario than what you have in your hand (I've never seen a Salvage title due to my unique circumstances with the Geo, but I've seen Salvage titled cars listed for sale on CL, and I trust you that the one in your hand is a Salvage title) because I have never seen a "Salvage: Rebuilt" title or anything like that anywhere in California.
A Salvage Certificate, though, is quite obvious from the pictures I've googled. It doesn't look like a title. It doesn't say it's a title and it's red, like all over including the border. If I remember correctly, you can't even buy cars from junkyards in California anymore. Once a car goes to the junkyard in California the title is surrendered and that's the end of the line for it--it can only be sold in parts.
That "spirit of the agreement" cuts both ways. They used it to deny people eligibility despite original plain language to the contrary but now they'd have to include yours (as a salvage vehicle put back into service) regardless of the plain language on the title. It's difficult to say what happened with your buddy's car because you and I don't know all of the details. When I first wrote my response to you, I used the phrase "strong indicator" rather than proof or something along those lines because branding status can slip through the cracks. Insurance agencies might catch that you have a branded title and you wouldn't know they weren't covering you until you were in an accident and it came up during an in-depth review of the accident and policy coverage. Years ago, my wife brought her totaled Geo into California and the Reconstructed brand dropped off the title. When we decided to sell it, we weren't sure how to disclose the title issue to any potential California buyers. Our friends wanted to buy it for their son back in Oregon and I believe the brand was placed back on their title when they transferred it back into their state.
That's also the reason I wrote that you made sure the insurance company knew of the branding status and that you don't just assume they know. All of those factors are evidence to VW that you either got the car up or received it in operable condition. The website is clearly inaccurate or talking about a different scenario than what you have in your hand (I've never seen a Salvage title due to my unique circumstances with the Geo, but I've seen Salvage titled cars listed for sale on CL, and I trust you that the one in your hand is a Salvage title) because I have never seen a "Salvage: Rebuilt" title or anything like that anywhere in California.
A Salvage Certificate, though, is quite obvious from the pictures I've googled. It doesn't look like a title. It doesn't say it's a title and it's red, like all over including the border. If I remember correctly, you can't even buy cars from junkyards in California anymore. Once a car goes to the junkyard in California the title is surrendered and that's the end of the line for it--it can only be sold in parts.
Last edited:
fookin
Veteran Member
Is Vehicle value + restitution = buyback? Does restitution = modification = the fix? If VW gives me "vehicle value" does that equal that calculated buyback in the FTC tables minus the "modification" amount for the same car?
Don't flame me y'all, but here's my quick take:
Buyback
The vehicle value = 2015 NADA model value +/- mileage and options retroactive to September 2015. This is what I expect the buyback number to be initially for vehicles that changed hands after 9/2015.
Owner Restitution is calculated differently between 2.0 and 3.0 vehicles, but reading the brief this is the disputed amount if a vehicle changed hands after 9/2015. I'm not expecting to see restitution until after September 2018 because my vehicle changed hands.
Modification
If a modification is available for your vehicle and you opt for it you're eligible for owner restitution after the modification has been made. I have no idea if VW will withhold these funds until after September 2018, but shaking the magic 8 ball results in 'most likely.'
gmoldovan
Active member
Thanks for the reply. I'm really hoping this is one of those instances where they didn't take into account some pretty logical stuff, salvage vs salvage rebuilt branding in different states (an example is they asked me to provide proof of purchase for a car i already submitted my title to a few months ago. In CA you need to turn the proof of purchase into the DMV to get the dang title to begin with so what the heck VW?) and that this will be taken care of in an appeal. I'm not really seeing who this is impacting tho. For us in CA, the document required that makes the package complete is the title. To get the title, you need to have the car running (for the emissions test), fixed (for the inspection), and all the required documents turned in (like the salvage certificate and bill of sale). Are there people trying to turn cars in that don't have them registered/titled?
Jkhalil123
Well-known member
Thanks for the reply. I'm really hoping this is one of those instances where they didn't take into account some pretty logical stuff, salvage vs salvage rebuilt branding in different states (an example is they asked me to provide proof of purchase for a car i already submitted my title to a few months ago. In CA you need to turn the proof of purchase into the DMV to get the dang title to begin with so what the heck VW?) and that this will be taken care of in an appeal. I'm not really seeing who this is impacting tho. For us in CA, the document required that makes the package complete is the title. To get the title, you need to have the car running (for the emissions test), fixed (for the inspection), and all the required documents turned in (like the salvage certificate and bill of sale). Are there people trying to turn cars in that don't have them registered/titled? yes like a dealer's. not vw.dealer
Jkhalil123
Well-known member
i need help please I need a lawyer for vw.lawsuit
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
They did take it into account and said it would be handled "special". It isn't logical and dealing with all those details from every state makes it a big headache to accomplish. People have issues when dealing with this stuff on their own with the DMV. Sounds like they are trying though to handle these claims with complexities.
halbert
Veteran Member
I suppose we should all be thankful for signs of progress.
I didn't see in what was posted from this new statement how a situation like mine will be handled:
Original owner (June 2014) of a 2.0 vehicle. Moved from Illinois to PA in October 2016, transferred title and registration to PA. November 2016 accident led to insurance totalling (bent axle, sprung chassis, side airbags deployed, otherwise engine runs and moves under it's own power). I paid off the loan, received the title from VW credit and converted to salvage certificate. Insurance paid a much reduced claim. I note that the insurance company never had the title in hand, and it was never titled in their name.
Do I get restitution or full buyback?
I didn't see in what was posted from this new statement how a situation like mine will be handled:
Original owner (June 2014) of a 2.0 vehicle. Moved from Illinois to PA in October 2016, transferred title and registration to PA. November 2016 accident led to insurance totalling (bent axle, sprung chassis, side airbags deployed, otherwise engine runs and moves under it's own power). I paid off the loan, received the title from VW credit and converted to salvage certificate. Insurance paid a much reduced claim. I note that the insurance company never had the title in hand, and it was never titled in their name.
Do I get restitution or full buyback?
Jkhalil123
Well-known member
if you purchased your car used with a branded title after 9/18/15 and it currently has a salvage title, it is ineligible.* Keep in mind that different states have different names for salvage titles.* For example, in California, a title that lists “Salvage” in the Vehicle History section is actually the equivalent of a “Salvage Rebuilt” title, because California issues a red “Salvage Certificate” for actual salvaged vehicles.* If you think VW made a mistake in classifying your car as a salvage vehicle, you can appeal to the CRC.
Jkhalil123
Well-known member
Unless the car had a rebuilt title as of 2/16/18, converting it to a rebuilt title now will not make it eligible.
jeffcapp99
Veteran Member
Rebuilt / Salvage titles are very complex as everyone here pointed out. Frankly, the temps VW hired are NOT capable of this task. Look for a lot of rejections and mistakes. Anyone that has spoken to these folks knows what I am talking about. For those that haven't spoken with VW temp staff take an aspirin and xanax. You will need it.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Temps will only handle them "after" the CRC decides if they are eligible or not. If they are I would imagine the temps handle them just fine. You may not get good answers in the mean time from the temps though.
JohnQ
Active member
This has been a long ordeal. I went back about ten pages as I frequently do when visiting these this thread over the months.
My situation, Purchased TDI in May 2013, totaled in January 2016, Title branded salvage but never removed from my name, never repurchased from insurance, etc.. Car just sitting on the side of the garage all smashed up.
Do we qualify for anything?
My situation, Purchased TDI in May 2013, totaled in January 2016, Title branded salvage but never removed from my name, never repurchased from insurance, etc.. Car just sitting on the side of the garage all smashed up.
Do we qualify for anything?
halbert
Veteran Member
JohnQ:
I think this clause: "(ii) Owners who acquired their vehicles prior to September 18, 2015, with a nonbranded
or salvage rebuilt title may be eligible for both Vehicle Value and Owner
Restitution if the vehicles currently have a branded title (including salvage and
salvage rebuilt titles), provided that all other eligibility requirements are met. If
the vehicle currently has a brand of junk, non-repairable, “parts only,” or any
equivalent brand denoting that the vehicle can never be rebuilt or repaired, the
vehicle is eligible only for Owner Restitution."
Is going to apply to people like us. At least I hope so. At the least, we will get original owner restitution. It depends on what the "provided that all other eligibility requirements are met" means.
I think this clause: "(ii) Owners who acquired their vehicles prior to September 18, 2015, with a nonbranded
or salvage rebuilt title may be eligible for both Vehicle Value and Owner
Restitution if the vehicles currently have a branded title (including salvage and
salvage rebuilt titles), provided that all other eligibility requirements are met. If
the vehicle currently has a brand of junk, non-repairable, “parts only,” or any
equivalent brand denoting that the vehicle can never be rebuilt or repaired, the
vehicle is eligible only for Owner Restitution."
Is going to apply to people like us. At least I hope so. At the least, we will get original owner restitution. It depends on what the "provided that all other eligibility requirements are met" means.
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
Does it run?
halbert
Veteran Member
My summary of the Feb 26 document:
There are 3392 salvage/branded title claims in the system. Of these, 1935 are in 'first 10 day' status--suggesting that those should be getting letters dated by March 8. Another 1159 are '2nd 10 day' status, suggesting that those should get letters dated by March 18 (unless they are counting only business days). Which means that most of us should get letters by the end of March.
They are breaking it down into 4 groups:
Group 1: Vehicles in salvage status before Sept 18, 2015: Bye Bye. Zip Zero Nada Nothing.
Group 2: People who had good vehicles as of Sept 18, 2015, later in an accident, now in salvalge/branded status: Eligible if (a) not in junk/non-rebuildable/ etc and (b) all other eligibility requirements are met (assume this means engine runs and it moves?)
Group 3: Vehicles bought from junk yards/insurance auctions after Sept 18, 2015 and rebuilt to useable status: Eligible for vehicle value buyback, but maybe or maybe not restitution, which depends if there is a prior claim for restitution.
Group 4: Vehicles bought from junk yards/insurance auctions after Sept 18, 2015 and not rebuilt before Feb 26, 2018: Nada, you're SOL.
I'll probably get flamed for this, but this does appear to be a reasonable solution. It takes care of the non-dealers who had accidents and held on to the cars, and it gets rebuilt cars off the road.
There are 3392 salvage/branded title claims in the system. Of these, 1935 are in 'first 10 day' status--suggesting that those should be getting letters dated by March 8. Another 1159 are '2nd 10 day' status, suggesting that those should get letters dated by March 18 (unless they are counting only business days). Which means that most of us should get letters by the end of March.
They are breaking it down into 4 groups:
Group 1: Vehicles in salvage status before Sept 18, 2015: Bye Bye. Zip Zero Nada Nothing.
Group 2: People who had good vehicles as of Sept 18, 2015, later in an accident, now in salvalge/branded status: Eligible if (a) not in junk/non-rebuildable/ etc and (b) all other eligibility requirements are met (assume this means engine runs and it moves?)
Group 3: Vehicles bought from junk yards/insurance auctions after Sept 18, 2015 and rebuilt to useable status: Eligible for vehicle value buyback, but maybe or maybe not restitution, which depends if there is a prior claim for restitution.
Group 4: Vehicles bought from junk yards/insurance auctions after Sept 18, 2015 and not rebuilt before Feb 26, 2018: Nada, you're SOL.
I'll probably get flamed for this, but this does appear to be a reasonable solution. It takes care of the non-dealers who had accidents and held on to the cars, and it gets rebuilt cars off the road.
jeffcapp99
Veteran Member
Thanks for the recap Halbert.
I think it is an interesting solution. I did not see a hard date not previously discussed (2/26/18) coming. So I was surprised.
I do think VW has an issue in that they (reluctantly) admit salvage titles are not excluded. In other words, they are changing the document because they want to eliminate profiteers and get people that have held these cars for 10 months paid. I am sure that issue will be tried in court.
I am glad we have a resolution but I do worry that VW will be able to process all of these salvage claims. They have not proved they are good at anything slightly out of the box.
It will CERTAINLY be discussed in court, but hopefully not tried
