VW dealer mechanic is perplexed

My problem is loss of power and noise whilst driving at I-66, some smoke (black), but not gobs and gobs, just some. Had VW dealer 85K service done on Tuesday, had sympton for 20 seconds on Wednesday. Problem reoccurred on Saturday and stayed. No lights came on at all.

1st local mechanic said it sounded like something popped. Dropped valve, hole in piston, something like that. The oil is still there, so the hole in piston idea doesn't seem right. He just looked at it a listened.

Took car to VW dealer and he says turbo is okay, valves are okay (I wonder if he really knows). They will do compression test tomorrow.

This sure seemed like a major problem. I am surprised that it has been hard to diagnose, such a big problem it seemed to be, btu that may be the nature of diesels.

I am now thinking a burn, broken, or otherwise damaged valve. It seemed that there was a lot of blow back in the intake manifold, but what do I know. I would think that a VW mechanic would check that pretty quick. Talking to the guy, he seemed like a good guy. He admitted he was kinda stuck.

What do you guys think? I will report how this turns out, but I was expecting to be buy a new engine.

At least here in the States, your subject line is no surprise. Canada is supposed to be better I've heard.

First off, we need to know what year and model car we are talking about. Second, did this problem only show up after the 85k service?
And third, have you checked all the intercooler piping and connections?

It sounds like this could be a boost leak.

The vw mechanic has some incredible powers if he can determine the valves are ok without having first done a compression test.

Kinda sounds like cam lobe/cam follower failure. Pull cam cover and look. Easier than a compression test.

Model

TDICADDGUY said:

First off, we need to know what year and model car we are talking about. Second, did this problem only show up after the 85k service?
And third, have you checked all the intercooler piping and connections?
It sounds like this could be a boost leak.

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He has a 2004 Jetta Gls PD TDI. I also would go with easiest to check: intercooler piping & connections.

Check the rubber hose where it goes into the intake on BEW motors the tabs wear down and the hose will start leaking usually it just blows off but it could be just leaking

Sorry about leaving out my details. As the one guys said, it is an '04 Jetta wagon GLS TDI PD. I bought it in VA. It was serviced last Tuesday at VW dealer in Toronto ON Canada. When I picked it up, the heater fan speed control knob was broken. I have trouble understanding how that happened in an 85K service. Of course, they said they didn't do that. I think that I might have gotten some bad service on Tuesday. The symptom appeared on Wednesday, but went away.

I agree with the valve diagnosis. No way he could know without x-ray vision, I suppose.

He said that his compression tester machiner has to charge for 24 hours prior to use, so he could not perform that yesterday.

That hose leading to the intake is loose. If I remove it, the car runs, and I hear pop-pop-pop and the popping gets loud if the accelerator is depressed. Seems like pressure is getting into the intake manifold, burnt valve?

I will let you know what happens.

It seems all too convenient that this problem just shows up after the service a day earlier...wouldnt surprise me if they goobered it up.

The intake hose clips are a problem area for these engines, you need a Doggie Collar for it. User whitedog came up with the fix, and www.kermatdi.com is selling them these days.

Never have seen a compression tester that has to charge for 24 hours, much less one that needs a battery at all. Sounds like a BS excuse to me.

Not sure if the popping noise is normal or not, it may or may not be related to your problem. The valve cover should probably be removed to get a look at things up top to see how the cam/lifters are wearing.

It does sound like a valve. Or particulate damage from a broken flapper or glow plug. They actually sound a little odd like that anyway because they are not throttled....but coupled with the other things you mentioned, I'd say check cylinder balance(easy with VCDS) Then compression and pull the cover.

A battery powered compression test machine? That would be interesting - I didn't know those were available, but then, I would never see the latest and greatest that mechanics are being shown by their local tool truck guys.

On the fan control: it looks like it is nearly impossible anywhere for anyone to be able to find people who have the integrity to admit their own foul-ups. Sigh...

Sounds like a leak in a boost line from the turbo to the intercooler.

You actually have to get under the car, and reset the clamps, more than likely its just slightly off and causing the issues.

Sounds like a simple fix at this point and requires some VERY complicated troubleshooting!

DB

Popping from the intake is typical of a cam/follower problem. Pull cam cover.

Popping sound from intake does sound like what we have heard described when the cam followers fail. The only thing is that it would be quite the coincidence that it happened just after a service. Also, the problem started, then stopped then started again. That is odd.

On the other hand, it's easy to pull the valve cover and take a look.

On the other hand, if a follower has failed, there would be obvious metal on the filter that the oil changer should have noticed.

After the followers are ruled out (which my gut says they will be) get the intake hose clamped on tight then search the rest of the intake tract for loose connections, although why would any hose connections be distrubed during a sevice. Curiouser and curiouser...

So, I am spending $6200 on a new head, as I am told, they cannot be repaired. And I am also throwing in a timing belt job as well, what the heck, why not. How about a second oil change in a week as well, I got nothing but money.

Is this true, they cannot be repaired? I told them I want to keep the old on. I plan to throw it through the window at the place that serviced it last Tuesday (just kidding).

I think it was the cam-follower failure deal. Service advisor says he has never seen one fail like this. He says it looks like it began to wear they think about 20K ago.

Oh, this hurts. Hurts my pocket and my view of VW products. 2 original beetles, two rabbits, and a 72 microbus (I still have it!) and this jetta. I am thinking this is my last VW, or non-A/C'd one anyway. I will complain at Queensway VW about this and VW. But I am sure they will tell me to stick it.

If it started 20K ago, that was when I still had a warrantee.

Hard to disconnect the 85K service on Tuesday with this problem.

I guess I'll ask the question that will be on everyone's minds...what oil have you been using for the life of this car? Who did the oil changes?

Your head can be repaired. There are actually people in your area that know how to fix your car. Please contact one of them and get it out of the dealership.

whitedog said:

Your head can be repaired. There are actually people in your area that know how to fix your car. Please contact one of them and get it out of the dealership.

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__. Yeah, the "going rate" in the US is nowhere near that for a rebuilt head and the labor to put it back on and the difference in Canada can't be that big. Probably, it should get a new timing belt kit (dunno, it's a PD and I don't have any experience with those). The PD's are more expensive but you're being done here.

Just had a full rebuild on the head of my '96 Passat, new tb, labor, and some other stuff I can't remember. Total was $1900 and change. Me thinkst I smell a big rat in that estimate they gave you!

dealer delete

100% of service was provided by VW dealer service.

Did they use the correct oil? Who knows?

As I told in a different thread, when I was shopping for this car, one of the TDI's I went to look at was fueled up with gasoline, by the dealer. So, evidently, one cannot assume the staff at the VW dealers know that TDI's use diesel fuel. So, do they know what kind of oil, who knows?

I never trusted them, so I always asked for 1 additional bottle of oil when I had the oil changed, so I would have some kind of evidence that they put the right oil in. But even so, I only know what kind of oil was in those bottles, not in the engine.

So what kind of oil. Since I did not personally change the oil, I can only rely on the dealers, but, friends, from where I sit right now, that seems a pathway fraught with peril.

If I knew where to conveniently buy and dispose of the 505.whatevertheheckthespecis oil was required, I would have been doing this myself all along and I could answer this question with confidence.

Alas, my mind is clouded with doubt, and I am going to have to sell investments in a really down market to cover this repair bill.

rehaufler said:

If I knew where to conveniently buy and dispose of the 505.whatevertheheckthespecis oil was required, I would have been doing this myself all along and I could answer this question with confidence.

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convenience is relative... unless you live in BFE

Well, I am in the middle of a road trip, miles and miles and miles from home.

I do not have the time or means to follow these suggestions.

I am gonna keep the busted head and get it fixed and sell it, or something. I am also going to see what VW says, but I already know.

They will say: Bite me you sucker! Hah hah hah hah hah hah!.

Volkswagen = left by car, returned broke and on foot.

I asked to keep the old head, but there is a core fee. So interesting, a core fee for a non-rebuildable part. $800.

I am so hosed.

$6200 to fix my car. This is the 6th largest purchase of my life. More than I have paid for all but 2 cars I have owned.

You were truly hosed... Now, while it's still drivable take it to a guru to have them check out the work. The timing belt on a PD is a pretty simple install but a waste of money if the tensioner, rollers and water pump weren't replaced along with the belt. Failure of any one of those components and the belt skips. Belt skips your pistons will kiss the valves good-bye (and maybe the pistons and throw rods will go bye-bye too).

And get the right oil in that engine. There is no compromise on the oil. It has to meet at least the 505.01 spec. The weak point in the design from all accounts is the cam shaft. It won't last with anything less than 505.01. That's why that big orange and yellow sticker under the hood warns you about the oil. "Catastrophic Failure" ... can't get any plainer than that. Don't leave it to the dealer to do the right thing cause the guy that changes the oil is generally the minimum wage kid that just pumps oil in the hole out of a drum. He don't know from nothin' what the spec is and probably doesn't care.

Is this a bioDiesel or WVO powered car?

Where are you located currently? Has the work already been started or can you call it off and wait it out awhile?

Your car can be fixed for far less than that amount of money...if you take it someplace besides the dealer.

Always diesel, not biodiesel.

Work is in progress has been since monday.

The timing belt is regular job, water pump tensioners all that. My idea on that actually, that will need to be done soon anyway.

All I can figure is VWAG does not trust VW dealer mechanics to do a proper head rebuild, so just to make sure they are instructed to replace the whole head. That way, they know the head is well and truly spec'd, and the customer is well and truly sucked empty of all funds. 2 birds with one stone, everybody wins, except the customer, and who gives a rats ass about them.

This will be the last nickel of my money VW ever sees. That goes for everything they own (Audi, Porsche, Bugatti, Lamborgini) as well. That is my only recourse. I will also do my best to make sure to convince as many as I can to never buy a VW either. I am going to sell my '72 microbus as well. Anybody want a '72 microbus or a 2004 TDI with a new head. I will sell it for $6200, but it is not worth that. I hate VW.

That goes for everything they own (Audi, Porsche, Bugatti, Lamborgini) as well.

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Good thing you mentioned this because I was just going to pull the trigger on a Veyron. Thanks for the heads up.

Someone far from home getting bent over and drilled by a local VW dealer...

I wish I could say this is a rare occurance...


In retrospect, you could have rented a Uhaul, a dolly, and towed the car home, had brandon fix it, and still have money left over for a nice vacation.

I would ask them which parts are part of the "core" charge.

If they are not included, I would keep the injectors at the very least.

Have they taken the head off yet? How do they know it needs to be replaced? Ditto the oil question. Not sure if the newer heads can be rebuilt (they used to say that about the ALH heads as well). Check with frank06. Seems like an awful lot of $ even so.