couple timing belt questions

Is the cam counterhold really necessary? Cant I just loosen the bolt with an impact real quick while the belt still has tension?

Second my timing belt kit didn't come with fasteners. I know the engine mount bolts are tty and I'm working out a plan to get rid of them. But under the timing cover appears to be several tty fasteners... 3 on the injection pump, large roller, small roller. Can I replace them with non-tty bolts? Prefer to get rid off as many stretch bolts as safely possible.

You might be able to loosen it with an impact, but most folks would agree it's important to tighten it to the right torque on re-assembly, and that will require a counter-hold tool. Too loose and you risk the tapered joint slipping and grenading the engine. Too tight and it may nearly impossible to ever separate the two pieces again.

I think I paid 12 bucks at Princess Auto for a reasonably stout sprocket counterhold tool.

In terms of the TTY hardware: which are "safe" to delete is truly a judgement call IMHO... and you'll get lots of opinions here.

Stepping back one step, however: if your timing belt kit did not come with the required replacement fasteners... in particular the required single-use bolts for the rollers...it might be a good idea to double-check the quality of the parts in the kit themselves as well. The water pump in particular is a critical component.

As you're no doubt aware, the timing belt path on an interference engine is one of the few areas where truly expensive things can happen if things go $$$ideways.

Vince Waldon said:

You might be able to loosen it with an impact, but most folks would agree it's important to tighten it to the right torque on re-assembly, and that will require a counter-hold tool. Too loose and you risk the tapered joint slipping and grenading the engine. Too tight and it may nearly impossible to ever separate the two pieces again.
I think I paid 12 bucks at Princess Auto for a reasonably stout sprocket counterhold tool.
In terms of the TTY hardware: which are "safe" to delete is truly a judgement call IMHO... and you'll get lots of opinions here.
Stepping back one step, however: if your timing belt kit did not come with the required replacement fasteners... in particular the required single-use bolts for the rollers...it might be a good idea to double-check the quality of the parts in the kit themselves as well. The water pump in particular is a critical component.
As you're no doubt aware, the timing belt path on an interference engine is one of the few areas where truly expensive things can happen if things go $$$ideways.

Click to expand...

thanks for the reply. can't seem to find the cam/sprocket counterhold tool on their website. was thinking I could retorque it correctly once I had tension on the belt again. I think it doesn't require much torque and it shouldn't rotate the engine.

the timing belt kit itself is quality. continental long life belt, bugatti metal impellar pump, litens tensioner, ina roller.

NO NO NO NO.

First, you do NOT want the cam to move when you're loosening the sprocket bolt and it's a big no-no to use the lock plate (you'll break the tail of the cam.) An *impact*? That bolt is simply not that tight. Counterhold the sprocket (lock plate OUT!) and it loosens easily with ordinary hand tools. Then put the lock plate back in.

But you CANNOT re-torque the cam sprocket without a counterhold tool of some sort. You MUST keep the cam/crank relationship inviolate AFTER tensioning the belt until that bolt is torqued to spec. Further the IP bolts and the cam sprocket MUST NOT be locked down when you tension the belt (only the CRANK is locked at that point) so the tension is taken up evenly and NO sideloading of the belt nubs occurs. All of that is NOT optional. You tension the belt, THEN torque the cam sprocket and THEN tighten the 3 IP bolts.

If you cheat you're asking for a grenaded engine. An overtorqued cam sprocket can break the nose of the cam. An undertorqued one can slip and destroy the valves and/or cylinder head. Attempting to use the cam lock plate as a counterhold has a VERY high probability of breaking the tailpiece of the cam.

It's not very hard to make a counterhold tool for that sprocket if you don't have one and don't want to buy one. A short piece of angle stock with a couple of bolts through it, and then a locknut setup so you have a "slot" for the sprocket arms to work against, is all you need. You can make one cheaply if you don't want to buy a commercially-made one, but whatever route you go in that regard yes, you DO need one.

Hmmmm... up to 22 loonies... mine musta been on sale / a while ago:

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/camshaft-holding-tool/A-p8159808e

Just cut a piece of cardboard wrap the cam between the lobes and use a pair of vise grips to sturdy the cam while torqued.