1.9 (m)tdi injection pump question

samuraitd

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Jan 26, 2013
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Provo, UT
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ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
so heres the story, new to the forum, got an 86 suzuki samurai, looking at purchasing an 98 ahu tdi, i want to run it mechanically, now i know that you can buy pumps built by several places, however, giles i believe it was wanted a hefty price plus two cores to build it for me, i thought, but wasnt sure, that i heard somebody used a 1.9 td, mechanical pump, on the tdi, and it worked rather well, but i cant find the thread anywhere!!!!!!! can anybody help me? i know this is probably a repost, but i dont wanna break the bank on a pump, i just graduated highschool, and want to do this swap before college starts, also, has anybody used prothes 500 dollar mtdi pump? i have read some pretty nasty stuff about that guy, thanks in advance
 

butteAK

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96 passat 1Z, 97 passat AHU, 99 jetta ALH motor for future buggy project
I personally regret buying prothe products. They have fallen apart without exception. Owning a tdi is expensive, and if you save money by buying inferior parts you will without exception regret it eventually. The best way to retrofit any motor in my opinion is to buy a running parts car
 

butteAK

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96 passat 1Z, 97 passat AHU, 99 jetta ALH motor for future buggy project
By going mTDI you lose power and fuel efficiency. I would install with electronics. And look at alh instead of ahu. More power to start with, more parts available, more room for improvement.
 

butteAK

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96 passat 1Z, 97 passat AHU, 99 jetta ALH motor for future buggy project
1z/ahu have a tin valve cover, alh has an aluminum valve cover
 

djrhetoric

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Location
MPLS
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80 Rabbit pickup MTDI
An IDI (1.6 NA or TD) pump will run the engine, but not very well. You will definitely be losing out on a lot of power and efficiency. I don't think I've ever come across a thread where someone claimed this setup 'worked rather well.'

I would never purchase a Prothe pump. I've read only bad things about his so-called M-TDI pumps.

Do your research on M-TDI. Maybe embarking on this project at this point in your career isn't the best idea. Unless you are building the pump yourself, it's not a cheap endeavor.
 

Rual817

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Prosper, Republic of Texas
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2000 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI ALH
so heres the story, new to the forum, got an 86 suzuki samurai, looking at purchasing an 98 ahu tdi, i want to run it mechanically, now i know that you can buy pumps built by several places, however, giles i believe it was wanted a hefty price plus two cores to build it for me, i thought, but wasnt sure, that i heard somebody used a 1.9 td, mechanical pump, on the tdi, and it worked rather well, but i cant find the thread anywhere!!!!!!! can anybody help me? i know this is probably a repost, but i dont wanna break the bank on a pump, i just graduated highschool, and want to do this swap before college starts, also, has anybody used prothes 500 dollar mtdi pump? i have read some pretty nasty stuff about that guy, thanks in advance
You have read bad coz there is reason for it. Some of what I remember reading included blown motors due to bad products, and also have read that when he does get sued and looses he closes and reopens under another name. He actually has LOSTS of names he works under. 20-30 stores are attributeed to him from what i can remember. A good reputaion only needs 1 store. He is on the avoid at all cost list with most everyone here.

Welcome to the club!
 

samuraitd

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Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Location
Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
thanks to all, i will skip prothes junk then, and i am NOT talking about using a 1.6 pump, its a 1.9td from the german engineering guy, and now that i think about it, i dont think it was on this forum, i think it was on one of the offroad forums, but i cant remember
 

mannytranny

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Oct 14, 2003
Location
CA
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02 Jetta (sold, such a great car) '16 Touareg
I put a MTDI pump from another Canadian guy into my sidekick with an AHU. Pump works great, but if I had to redo it I'd spend a little time learning the wiring schematics and making my own electronic TDI harness to get the full power and efficiency that comes with the electronic pump. (not to mention RC upgrades)
 

djrhetoric

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Location
MPLS
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80 Rabbit pickup MTDI
thanks to all, i will skip prothes junk then, and i am NOT talking about using a 1.6 pump, its a 1.9td from the german engineering guy, and now that i think about it, i dont think it was on this forum, i think it was on one of the offroad forums, but i cant remember
I think you're confused.

1.6TD and 1.9TD are both IDI.

There is no 'factory mechanical' 1.9TDI.

There is a mechanical pump off of a VW LT 2.5 TDI that is sort of bolt-on. A Land Rover 300TDI pump will bolt on (if using the VW hub and pulley)as well.

Go over to vwdiesel.net and do some reading in the TDI section.
 

samuraitd

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Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Location
Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
I think you're confused.

1.6TD and 1.9TD are both IDI.

There is no 'factory mechanical' 1.9TDI.

There is a mechanical pump off of a VW LT 2.5 TDI that is sort of bolt-on. A Land Rover 300TDI pump will bolt on (if using the VW hub and pulley)as well.

Go over to vwdiesel.net and do some reading in the TDI section.
no, i know that there is no factory mtdi, but what im saying is, i know the idi pumps dont put out as much pressure as a tdi pump, but i want to know if i can use a pump off a 1.9 td, and use it on the tdi?
 

samuraitd

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Jan 26, 2013
Location
Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
I put a MTDI pump from another Canadian guy into my sidekick with an AHU. Pump works great, but if I had to redo it I'd spend a little time learning the wiring schematics and making my own electronic TDI harness to get the full power and efficiency that comes with the electronic pump. (not to mention RC upgrades)
what engine did you get the pump off of? thats exactly what i want to do
 

djrhetoric

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Jun 28, 2007
Location
MPLS
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80 Rabbit pickup MTDI
no, i know that there is no factory mtdi, but what im saying is, i know the idi pumps dont put out as much pressure as a tdi pump, but i want to know if i can use a pump off a 1.9 td, and use it on the tdi?
It depends on what you mean by 'use,' but I would say no.

I'm sure you could get the engine to idle using a 1.9TD (AAZ) pump, but actually drive it? I doubt it.

IDI does not equal DI. You need DI internals to run the engine properly.
 

Vince Waldon

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2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
Bottom line:




*Any* mechanical pump is going to require a bunch of parts, some substantial know-how, tweaking, etc, for proper results... which is why Giles uses parts from a couple different pumps. :)
 
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djrhetoric

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Jun 28, 2007
Location
MPLS
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80 Rabbit pickup MTDI
what engine did you get the pump off of? thats exactly what i want to do
There are three 'easy' options for building an MTDI (easy being very subjective in this case):

VW LT 2.5 TDI pump with mods
Land Rover 300TDI pump with mods
Completely custom pump using an AAZ (1.9 IDI) pump and 1Z/AHU (1.9DI) pump as cores (as you have already found).
Some have also used Cummins 4BT pumps as a base, but that requires more work...
 
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samuraitd

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Location
Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
There are three 'easy' options for building an MTDI (easy being very subjective in this case):

VW LT 2.5 TDI pump with mods
Land Rover 300TDI pump with mods
Completely custom pump using an AAZ (1.9 IDI) pump and 1Z/AHU (1.9DI) pump as cores (as you have already found).
Some have also used Cummins 4BT pumps as a base, but that requires more work...
i see, hmmmmmmm this sucks, kay, im gonna do some searching see what i cant dig up, thanks for being patient guys, keep in mind, im a noob to this! :)
 

xriss

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Location
SCOTLAND
hi i have for sale a 2.8 vw lt pump ,direct bolt on not chineese carp, this pump is the defacto and extremly hard to find, email me if you might be interested and i will send some pics ,thanks xriss55 at hotmail.com
 

samuraitd

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Jan 26, 2013
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Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
okay, i got another idea, is it possible to swap the camplate and entire pump head from a tdi onto a 1.9 idi pump?
 

samuraitd

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Jan 26, 2013
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Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
hi i have for sale a 2.8 vw lt pump ,direct bolt on not chineese carp, this pump is the defacto and extremly hard to find, email me if you might be interested and i will send some pics ,thanks xriss55 at hotmail.com
email sent,
 

samuraitd

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Jan 26, 2013
Location
Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
was just offered this by xriss, its a 2.8 tdi pump, all mechanical, he said it works great, and its a direct bolt up to a 1.9 ahu tdi, what do you guys think? does anybody know if the gear on the front can be swapped out for a pulley like most pumps have?
 

TDIJetta99

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Port Jervis, New York, USA
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03... Faster than yours =]
I'd just do the electronic pump.. It's really not that hard.. Look at the Toyota swaparoo thread in the conversions section, he has a lot of wiring info there..
 

samuraitd

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Jan 26, 2013
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Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
I'd just do the electronic pump.. It's really not that hard.. Look at the Toyota swaparoo thread in the conversions section, he has a lot of wiring info there..
but i dont want to!!!! lol, the biggest reason i dont want to, is i plan to run this hoss through rivers, mud, creeks, and i dont want electrical issues, sure, water is going to get into everything, but i want to reduce my problems to begin with if possible
 

samuraitd

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ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
the numbers on the pump i posted a picture of earlier are- 0460424138
 

TDIJetta99

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Port Jervis, New York, USA
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03... Faster than yours =]
You'll have to seal up the timing belt cover really well if you plan on dunking it high enough to submerge the injection pump haha.. None of that stuff likes being soaked like that..
 

samuraitd

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Jan 26, 2013
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ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
You'll have to seal up the timing belt cover really well if you plan on dunking it high enough to submerge the injection pump haha.. None of that stuff likes being soaked like that..
funny you say that, i was actually gonna say that, nothing likes to get wet after all though, it just happens
 
8

8v-of-fury

Guest
It depends on what you mean by 'use,' but I would say no.

I'm sure you could get the engine to idle using a 1.9TD (AAZ) pump, but actually drive it? I doubt it.

IDI does not equal DI. You need DI internals to run the engine properly.
False. You can get the engine to run perfectly with a straight 1.6 or 1.9 IDI pump, I have personally done it. Can you get anywhere near stock 1.9TDI power levels? No. But it will start, run, and drive fairly well. Pretty much stock 1.6 TD power levels.

Honestly, if its going to JUST be a bog machine...... you could just put on a 1.6 pump and still have tons of power in the lower RPM's. I towed a trailer weighing 1300lbs with a 1.9 idi pump on my m-tdi engine.

Please refrain from spewing information you are not 100% on, it makes the internets very hard for beginners..
 
8

8v-of-fury

Guest
so i could theoretically use this pump, i would just need to swap to a gear like the timing belt uses?
If the guy says it will bolt to the AHU bracket then all you need to find is likely just an AHU pulley to run it.

That will be an easy route for sure, so long as it actually does have the smaller pump snout and will bolt to the AHU bracket.
 

djrhetoric

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Jun 28, 2007
Location
MPLS
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80 Rabbit pickup MTDI
False. You can get the engine to run perfectly with a straight 1.6 or 1.9 IDI pump, I have personally done it. Can you get anywhere near stock 1.9TDI power levels? No. But it will start, run, and drive fairly well. Pretty much stock 1.6 TD power levels.

Honestly, if its going to JUST be a bog machine...... you could just put on a 1.6 pump and still have tons of power in the lower RPM's. I towed a trailer weighing 1300lbs with a 1.9 idi pump on my m-tdi engine.

Please refrain from spewing information you are not 100% on, it makes the internets very hard for beginners..
Thank you for your insight.

If you would have read my post and my wording choices, I never said it wouldn't work. I said it would work, but probably not very well. I may have overstated when I said 'I doubt it,' so I apologize.

You contradicted your own argument when you said 'you can get the engine to run perfectly' and 'its just going to be a bog machine.' Perfectly does not equal bog machine. It seems to be a little counter-productive to choose a TDI if you're going to compromise with an IDI pump. Why not just put in a 1.6 or 1.9 IDI then?

I am far from 'spewing' information. I am trying to provide helpful information for those looking to go this route. I gave a few options of nearly bolt-on DI pump solutions. The best way to set one of these engines up is to use the proper DI pump. I was stating this as a disclaimer. People going this route shouldn't expect full performance from an IDI pump on a DI engine.

And yes, I have read your threads on vwdiesel.net and vwvortex, so I know your (online) reputation with these pumps.

The internet is serious business.
 
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samuraitd

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Jan 26, 2013
Location
Provo, UT
TDI
ahu mtdi samurai swap, 1991 jetta ecodiesel
Thank you for your insight.

If you would have read my post and my wording choices, I never said it wouldn't work. I said it would work, but probably not very well. I may have overstated when I said 'I doubt it,' so I apologize.

You contradicted your own argument when you said 'you can get the engine to run perfectly' and 'its just going to be a bog machine.' Perfectly does not equal bog machine. It seems to be a little counter-productive to choose a TDI if you're going to compromise with an IDI pump. Why not just put in a 1.6 or 1.9 IDI then?

I am far from 'spewing' information. I am trying to provide helpful information for those looking to go this route. I gave a few options of nearly bolt-on DI pump solutions. The best way to set one of these engines up is to use the proper DI pump. I was stating this as a disclaimer. People going this route shouldn't expect full performance from an IDI pump on a DI engine.

And yes, I have read your threads on vwdiesel.net and vwvortex, so I know your (online) reputation with these pumps.

The internet is serious business.
COME ON GUYS!!!! CANT WE ALL GET ALONG? we all love tdis, and diesel vws, and thats what matters!!! thanks for all of the great info btw from everybody
 
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