www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 12th, 2017, 23:08   #1
colorobo2002
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sacramento, CA
Fuel Economy: 44 mpg
Default broken valve lifters

So was nearly complete with my:
head rebuild (with new lifters)
turbo actuator replacement
fuel injection pump replacement

when i replaced the lifters/camshaft i just poured oil all over them and the camshaft. when i started up the car, some black smoke came out of the tailpipe, i assumed this was because of the new fuelinjection pump, and timing. so i let the car idle for about 10 minutes or so, to get to temperature.

The car sounded very "knocky" so I turned it off, started it again and it sounded "knocky". i pulled the valve cover and saw that two of the lifters are coming apart and getting shattered. shards of metal are everywhere in the head. i feel like such a dumba**. when reading up on this repair, i didn't see anything about proper lubrication for the lifer, or about keeeping the rpm over 1800 to keep the oil pressure up (now it do, but that is too late now).

So does anyone think i can just pull the cam, and pull the oil pan and clean out the shards of metal and replace the followers and be all good? I could spray carb cleaner in there to get rid of any shards. Or will i have to pull the head and get it cleaned up.

any thoughts or kind words?
colorobo2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2017, 00:35   #2
vanbcguy
Veteran Member
 
vanbcguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Default

Far more likely you've had some valve to piston contact. Even run dry I wouldn't expect a lifter to come apart at idle for the duration you're talking about.

I'd start by bringing the crank to TDC and verifying that the cam is timed correctly...

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
__________________
My build thread: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=32967.0
vanbcguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2017, 08:20   #3
Ol'Rattler
Veteran Member
 
Ol'Rattler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marysville, Wa.
Default

What Van said. I replaced my cam and lifters and when I started it, there was no "Knocky" sound, just some tappet ticking that went away after about 15 seconds or less and this was at idle.

After checking the timing, probably your next step will be to pull the head.........
__________________
2006 Jetta TDI
5 speed, Manufactured 06/06
DC stage 1 SMF Clutch
Draw-Tite hitch
Dash Tray
Blue tint aspherical mirrors
Euro Cupholder
Euro Light Switch
2nd grocery hook
VCDS Hacks: DRL Disabled-Seatbelt Chime Disabled-Key fob Power Windows
Adjusted Cam to Crank Timing
Ol'Rattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2017, 18:01   #4
flee
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chatsworth, CA
Fuel Economy: 40-ish
Default

Is it possible that during the head rebuild they could have skimmed too much off
the head? Did the valve seats get replaced? Or is the cam timing way off?
__________________
2002 Jetta GLS TDI wagon, 2012 Audi A3 TDI S-Line
flee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2017, 18:20   #5
jettawreck
Veteran Member
 
jettawreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern Minnesota-55744
Fuel Economy: 52+ average lifetime '01
Default

I didn't do anything at all about pre-lubing the cam/lifters other than drizzling some oil on them. No noise, no problem.
I would also assume you have had a timing "event" and done the damage.
__________________

2001 Jetta TDI GLS Silver-current driver (salvage)permanently vented-Panzer Plate-Sprint 520s-ScanGauge-CheckTemp III-ZeroStart heater-CAT 2 filter
2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
jettawreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2017, 18:33   #6
UhOh
Veteran Member
 
UhOh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: PNW
Default

Out of curiosity, where did the parts come from and who did the head work (what was done)?
UhOh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2017, 08:15   #7
colorobo2002
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sacramento, CA
Fuel Economy: 44 mpg
Default

I double checked the timing, it looks pretty much spot on, **maybe** 1 tooth off if I was to be really picky. The initial 2 turns to check by hand all looked good when I initially set it up.

Looks like 3 lifters are bad (2 are essentially a disk with no sides, the other is completely gone to pieces and is no longer functioning.)

I don't know brand of lifter, but I bought em from a parts supplier for the local reputable shops, so I wasn't buying garbage. Also the machine shop was highly recommended in the be community. He put in new valves so with the reseating and decking of the head, they came out to be the same overall protrusion as original. We discussed this when he was rebuilding the head.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
colorobo2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2017, 08:17   #8
colorobo2002
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sacramento, CA
Fuel Economy: 44 mpg
Default

...machine shop was highly recommended in the **VW** community...

The head work was: new valves, guides, seals, resurface head.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
colorobo2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2017, 10:45   #9
flee
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chatsworth, CA
Fuel Economy: 40-ish
Default

If the timing was right then the head clearances are wrong. Lifters don't just fail for no reason.
What matters is how well they know TDI's, not just VW's.
__________________
2002 Jetta GLS TDI wagon, 2012 Audi A3 TDI S-Line
flee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2017, 18:44   #10
Franko6
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sw Missouri
Default

Our main business is rebuilding VW TDI cylinder heads. I have never had a rupture like you had. Never...

I don't know what valve head projection value they used, if they didn't trim the valve stem height, if they surfaced too much of the head... there are several ways to do it wrong.

Since your are going to have to remove the head, you might start by removing the cam and lifters. We exclusively use INA lifters. They should be marked as such, with a number:F-16416-72, if they are the correct ones.

There were some sold over the last 6-7 years that were marked "INA" without the numbers. There were 800,000 pieces sold as overstocks from S. Africa intended for a 1.6 IDI engine and although they are INA, they will fail prematurely in an engine with double the horsepower. But even those sub-par lifters won't blow up instantly.

If I were to guess, the valve relief was insuffient and when your lifters primed, the valves would not close except by being smashed up by the pistons. So, you have the joy of removing the cylinder head again.

We probably can recover your situation. Feel free to call if I can be any assistance.
__________________
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
FranksTDIs@sbcglobal.net

'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta
Franko6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Car died, Broken Cam Lifters bgsnyder TDI 101 60 May 11th, 2010 17:46
Hydraulic Valve lifters Hockeyhaven TDI 101 2 February 12th, 2007 16:03
Broken Lifters bailey1 VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 25 May 3rd, 2006 18:38
Hydrolic valve lifters TurboCharger Other VW Group TD(I)s 2 June 3rd, 2005 19:43
ticking valve lifters jr VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 8 June 11th, 2000 10:28


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.13735 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 97.78 Kb. compressed to 83.33 Kb. by saving 14.46 Kb. (14.78%)]