dual mass or single mass clutch???

My 2000 TDI is about to turn 360k and still on the original clutch. It's still holding fine, but I'm starting to get some chatter in neutral. When I push the clutch in, that chatter stops. I assume that it's probably the throwout bearing getting ready to die???

So I see a replacement clutch in my very near future. My question is should I stick the the dual mass or convert it to a single mass setup? Not sure how many years the old girl has left, but I try to take good care of it, and I plan to drive her until she croaks. Since I have gotten 360k on the original, I really see no need for the single mass conversion, but wanted to hear some input from the gurus. Any thoughts?

If you never plan to modify the car for more power, and you want a slightly quieter sound when in neutral, then the dual-mass would be okay.

Unless you're very picky about the idle sound in neutral, a single-mass flywheel should cost a bit less, and is more reliable.

Personally, I would just get the lowest priced single-mass setup from a known brand like Luk or Sachs, for an unmodified car. I wouldn't go for the absolute lowest price, like a Chinese knock off or something. Just a lower cost brand-name basic clutch.

Here's an example: https://www.idparts.com/sachs-quiet-clutch-flywheel-kit-a4a5-p-2831.html

If you go single mass with a heavier fly wheel it won't chatter hardly at all.

I second that, went with a 21lb flywheel and I have zero chatter. Had a 17lb at first I think, and you could hear the gears chattering at low speeds.

A LUK 17-050 dual mass complete kit is less that 2 Franklins. I don't think the SMF conversions are that cheap yet. I put one in the Golf that is now being driven by The Boy. It is light pedal; quite nice...but the ALH in front of it is un-tuned up.
cheers,
Douglas

I also have bought a LUK 17-050 as i heard only good from it and for the price its at, cant complain at all; I just didnt install it yet as it seems like its going to be a pain to swap :/

I agree that installation definitely looks like a pain. I'm capable of doing it, but with 4 kids and very limited free time, I think I'm gonna have someone else perform the instal'. What should I expect to pay for installation?

ID Parts has a LUK "complete" kit (includes new bolts and fork) for $319, or a basic kit for $229. Do I REALLY need to replace the fork and bolts or should I just get the basic kit? Do those sound like a reasonable prices or should I look elsewhere?

Here is one option https://www.amazon.com/LuK-17-050-C...s=luke+17-050&qid=1552590883&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Jones, with as many miles as you have on this, I would voluntarily elect to replace everything in the bell/trans housing this go-around.

As the release bearings wear down and break down, they will cut into the metal of the release arm with regularity. Sometimes, if that is not too bad, you can use a flat file to "dress" that up.

But, for the amount of work, etc., there comes a time when counting pennies does not make the greatest sense in the world. And, that is a penny-pinching guy saying that.

Do it once....get 'err done. Breath easy.
Edit: you seem to be quite "easy" on clutches. You could probably do well with the 17050. I am easy on clutches and don't have a stiff one for power gains...so, I elected to go with the LUK's on both of my formerly clapped out Beetles which I rebuilt. I have to admit the dual's are super smooth to live with.

Honestly, if you aren't going to upgrade to any power mods keep the dual mass and Change everything, it had lasted this long and the next would do just as well.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

^I'm with Eddie^

I know its an unpopular opinion but I would never put a DMF back in especially a LUK one. They do all sorts of bad things when they go bad from shuddering at idle to vibrations to exploding. Nothing to go wrong with a solid flywheel.

Get yourself a heavy flywheel and a proper TDI sprung clutch disk and it will never rattle. Its a lifetime clutch if you treat it right.

All that ratting garbage was caused by vendors packaging a gasser disk which is sprung completely wrong for the TDI engine. The rattling has nothing to due with the SMF, its due to the wrong clutch disk.

commanderjjones said:

I'm gonna have someone else perform the instal'. What should I expect to pay for installation?

ID Parts has a LUK "complete" kit (includes new bolts and fork) for $319, or a basic kit for $229. Do I REALLY need to replace the fork and bolts or should I just get the basic kit? Do those sound like a reasonable prices or should I look elsewhere?

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Do you want to pay someone to pull the trans again if there's a problem later.
TTY bolts are 1 use.

The dual mass clutch I got from ID-Parts was assembled and had the new crank bolts in the holes already.

In my old age I'm more of a do it once guy.

From my own experience of both I'd go dmf myself, much prefer it all round. Smoother and quieter.

I got the Sachs kit last time, came assembled and with new flywheel bolts.

"I would never put a DMF back in"

I'm with turbocharged798.

Actions speak louder than words I guess...while I got one 17-050, the replacement for my Jetta is an upgraded SMF. The G60/VR6 SMF. The original clutch is not going to come out any time soon I hope( with 85 k mi on it ), but the replacement is a SMF...LOL
cheers,
Douglas

my car has 308k with the original clutch. I am considering doing preventive maintenance this summer. I'll go with the DMF.

wonneber said:

...........In my old age I'm more of a do it once guy.

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Amen brother, same here. With 4 kids, 2 grandkids, and a garage full of toys that need regular attention, I don't have time to do crap over.

Thanks for the info' guys.

turbocharged798 said:

I know its an unpopular opinion but I would never put a DMF back in especially a LUK one. They do all sorts of bad things when they go bad from shuddering at idle to vibrations to exploding. Nothing to go wrong with a solid flywheel.
Get yourself a heavy flywheel and a proper TDI sprung clutch disk and it will never rattle. Its a lifetime clutch if you treat it right.

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Completely agree. I've done 2 SMF conversions and both have been flawless over thousands of miles. If you plan to keep the car for a long time, just do the SMF conversion with a quality kit and never worry about the clutch or flywheel ever again.

I replaced mine a few years ago with a kit from id parts (SMF). Fork wasn't necessary and I can't remember exactly what the problem was but the one in the kit wouldn't work in my car so I re-used the old one.

I still have the fork and the unused rear main seal in my garage here in Ottawa (Canada, not Kansas) in case someone local needs one in a pinch.

Mine went the other way: had the fork go out on my wife but I was about 400 miles away. Sent her to a shop and drop-shipped a SBC Stage2 to their door. Thought it was the DMF with over 200K on the clock but everything was fine. Went ahead and swapped out the flywheel and clutch because I think the labor was about the same either way at that point.

Anyway, the fork will go out before the clutch if you replace one without the other

The only comment I would say about DMF vs. SMF is that the DMF will absorb and dampen a lot of force and vibration the SMF will otherwise transmit along the driveline. There's a reason the engineers put a service item in line and that's to protect other, more costlier things that will break over time. Same issue with people racing their BMWs; they'd replace the DMF with SMF and then blow out their guibos. Those guibos were "only" a few hundred dollars but they required dropping pretty much everything under the car to get to it. The ujoints weren't serviceable on the driveshaft, too, which required a full pull and rebuilding from a dedicated driveshaft shop with the right tools--think it was $800 to rebuild. The transmission was a similarly buttaching price. That said, I dropped a SMF in mine, as well.

Stock I'd say DMF all the way and I'd question whether the body would make it through the second one's life. I just disagree with the general claim that nothing can go wrong with a SMF and a DMF will always prove problematic. If you're racing/modding then SMF, daily driving DMF.

bizzle said:

Stock I'd say DMF all the way and I'd question whether the body would make it through the second one's life. I just disagree with the general claim that nothing can go wrong with a SMF and a DMF will always prove problematic. If you're racing/modding then SMF, daily driving DMF.

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I have to agree with this.
I replaced my original DMF with another.
Maybe I don't remember how smooth the clutch was in late 2002 when I bought it but it was smoother when I replaced it.

I also didn't race it but while I was working the car got an Italian tune up almost daily just getting the RPM's up to keep the intercooler clean.

commanderjjones said:

...When I push the clutch in, that chatter stops. I assume that it's probably the throwout bearing getting ready to die???

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Your dual mass flywheel is done for. Be prepared for the bolts holding it to the crank to be inaccessible, and as a result, needing to grind the flywheel center hub off. I replaced everything with an idparts 21lb single mass kit. No weird vibrations or chatter at idle.

You'll need to also replace the pivot pin for the clutch fork, and I highly highly recommend replacing the clutch fork too. The nylon ball will wear off of the pivot pin and the metal behind it will eat into the clutch fork.

I went with a single mass flywheel at about 300000 miles and pondered whether I should go with DMF or SMF as there was talk the SMF was noisy during operation and at first when I first used it it was fine but now at 500000 miles it is a little noisy. Going back to what I know now I would have purchased the DMF

SMF should not be noisy, something is wrong.

I am really enjoying this thread, I am looking at replacing my clutch with in the next two weeks. To many options out there. I replaced the injectors in my car about 3yrs ago to Bosio ULSD 1019's, while having the extra power is nice my clutch started to slip after 2yrs. Now I have spent the last month laboring of what kinda clutch to go with.

I have learned one thing don't take injector advice from a company that sells tunes, big turbos, and heavy clutches. I think I would have been perfectly happy with the Bosio DLC 357's and not have my clutch slip. Personally I love the way my car drives and would hate to lose any of its smoothness with getting the wrong clutch. On a side note anyone out there with 357 injectors want to swap out to 1019's?

I put the SBC Stage 2 Daily in my bug. I can't remember what the original felt like and my wife has never complained about the clutch and it can hold 400ft/lb. She enjoys driving it still even though it's not our daily driver anymore.


I'm interested in your 1019s if you decide to sell them.

good discussion. I just ordered this for my 00. I've had great luck with it on my A4. Really smooth and great feel.

Valeo 52255602 Solid Flywheel Conversion

SMF Conversion

Last summer I installed a SMF conversion from ID Parts. Went with their house brand setup as I was feeling poor at the time. Parts are very good quality. Also replaced the rear main seal while in there. The clutch is great 18,000 miles later. Virtually no rattle. Really good precise feel to it. If I had to do it over I might get their heavier duty VR6 clutch instead to handle a few mods.
Also I would pull the drive axle flange off the transmission in order to drop the transmission easier. Did it without removing the flange and it was a serious pain in the ass.

Hey guys, sorry to bump and old thread. I’m a new guy still figuring this thing out.

But, I replaced my DMF with a SMF a little over a year ago, with a Valeo Clutch kit from europarts, and my clutch lost pressure on the highway about a week ago. Figured master cylinder, replaced: no change. Pulled the transmission and the slave cylinder is beat. We ordered an oem part from vw but it has a rubber or hard plastic seal on the end of the throwout bearing. Does anyone know if this would be a problem or should it work fine?