Slow Cranking Issue

Dhawk12

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Location
Langley, Canada
TDI
2002 ALH 5 spd
I have an ALH TDI with a 5 speed and it is having all sorts of issues starting it. When you try and crank it, it will turn real slow like the battery is dead. I have tried multiple batteries and just running the batteries directly to the starter to isolate the battery cable and it still turns over way too slow. I have also tried two different starters as well as removing the serpentine belt to see if that was causing too much resistance.



If you hook two batteries up to it it will turn over and start the car, but you can't do it with just one battery with 850 cold cranking amps. Before attempting to start the car the battery is at ~14 volts and when cranking it drops to around ~8-9 volts. The car will also bump start down the road fine.



I am wondering if the previous owner (who did an engine swap on it) somehow reinstalled the clutch or transmission in a way that is causing too much resistance for the starter. Or I suppose it is possible that both the starters I have tried are bad.


Any suggestions?
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
You will find that TDIs are pretty demanding on their batteries and starters.
Especially up north, you should get a good quality group 94R or H7 size.
The starter should be an OEM also. Rebuilds are a crapshoot.
If you are using quality components, then look at the cables and connections.
Lastly, try to verify that the glowplugs are functioning correctly.
 

joep1234

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Location
NC
TDI
former '04 Beetle TDI, now 2x '15 Audi Q5 TDI's, 2007 Dodge Ram 4x4 6.7
Mine did the same thing. Put a new battery from VW and it didn't make that much of a difference. My son took the starter out and did an inspection. The brushes were hanging on a mushroom at the end of one pair of the brushes and the grease on the gear reduction was hard. He cleaned both up and the starter will spin the motor to about 350 rpm's and starts easy cold or hot.
 

ffemtp

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Location
SE WI
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS TDI Deceased 11/2012, 2004 Jetta GL TDI Sold, 2012 Jetta TDI (Retruned to VW), 2004 Jetta TDI GLS 5spd
If the car you are having trouble with is the 2002 in your profile I'd just suggest removing the starter and either clean it up or just replace it. By now it has done a lot of work. I change mine out at 150k miles whether I have starting trouble or not. I'd rather change it on my terms than wait until I get stranded somewhere. Napa and Advance are usually a reliable source for starters.
 

Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that the motor 'brushes' are carbon blocks. Most people do realize that carbon is a resistor, and if you think about it, that carbon dust coming off the brushes accumulates and makes a way for the starting current to leach through many paths other than going through the coils that would drive the starter.


Cleaning up the armature, replacing the brushes, replacing bearings and cleaning the grease in the gears (OK, clean up and replace the grease) will make an amazing difference.


Cheers,


PH
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Before attempting to start the car the battery is at ~14 volts and when cranking it drops to around ~8-9 volts. The car will also bump start down the road fine.
The ECU will not function under 9.6 volts.
I would measure the cranking amps of the starter.

There is a wire from the starter solenoid going inside the starter. It's been knows to corrode over the years but that should not cause the battery to drop that low.

You are measuring the battery voltage at both posts, not the clamps correct?
Some of the parts stores will test the battery for free. Just make sure they can load test it.

Could be time for a starter refresh.

The above clean polish & press steps are correct. :)
If it's apart I would install new brushes and 2 (I think) bushings.
 
Last edited:

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
I'm reading that you've ruled out the battery and starter. Cause it sounds like starter.
The first thing on this age car is wiring. Sounds like the ignition to start circuit is O.K. so rule out the battery cables. The wire/connect to the starter can corrode internally and look decent. With a good resistance meter, measure the resistance on that wire. Length, size can be used to calculate what it should be.
 

Dhawk12

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Location
Langley, Canada
TDI
2002 ALH 5 spd
It seems like it was definitely the starters. Opening one up and doing a quick clean up replacing grease, etc without changing brushes significantly improved the cranking speed.


So now its time to do a full overhaul of it and make it work long term.
 

Dhawk12

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Location
Langley, Canada
TDI
2002 ALH 5 spd
The saga continues. Spoke to a VW tech and he said it may be that the starter is going in too far and not meshing right with the flywheel causing increased resistance.


So I put two washers as shims between the starter and the engine block and now it starts like a hot dang.


The question is, what would cause said misalignment? Bearing in mind that the p/o swapped engines after he had a runaway which meant bolting up the tranny, flywheel etc to the new engine, and I am starting to wonder if the guy knew what he was doing. Is it possible that he put it back together wrong and yet the car still drives fine, but now the starter and the flywheel aren't exactly aligned?


I plan on opening it up but my only other experience with these cars is on my 01m automatic.


Could something be missing that like a cover plate for the flywheel that would act as a shim? From the bottom of the car you can see the flywheel (the bottom of it anyways) exposed, is that normal on a 5 spd manual?


Any suggestions are appreciated.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Maybe he put an automatic starter on it. The auto and 5spd starters are different but I haven’t had the opportunity to place one of each side by side to see exactly what the difference is.
 

Dhawk12

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Location
Langley, Canada
TDI
2002 ALH 5 spd
That is possible although I'm not sure it would start as good (aligned properly) since the auto starters are weaker.


There is also a strange ticking sound at idle with the clutch is disengaged that sounds like something is rubbing/catching that shouldn't be. It is still there with the clutch engaged but quieter.
 

Dhawk12

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Location
Langley, Canada
TDI
2002 ALH 5 spd
Anybody have any idea what might be causing this issue?


Also, is there somewhere to find a diagram for what components are between the tranny and the engine? (Ie shields, clutch, flywheel etc)
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Could something be missing that like a cover plate for the flywheel that would act as a shim? From the bottom of the car you can see the flywheel (the bottom of it anyways) exposed, is that normal on a 5 spd manual?


Any suggestions are appreciated.

There is a cover plate that covers the bottom of the flywheel. I’ve never seen a 5 spd without one.
 
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