Gen 2 2.0l Fix announcement 5/19/17

jdyno718 · May 19, 2017

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN18F1TL?il=0

We shall see... pretty specific to 2ng gen with automatic transmissions.

UPDATE: https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/emissions/Final_2L%20_Gen2_Automatic_Approval.pdf

Looks like it is confirmed. fix is for 2012-2014 Passats with automatics only... LAME

Matt-98AHU · May 19, 2017

That's pretty strange, yeah, re: DSG only fix.

No update from VW or the court settlement website yet. Will be interesting to see more details.

GoFaster · May 19, 2017

It's quite possible that the number of manual transmission vehicles in that specific model did not make it economically viable to develop and validate a solution for those. We shall see.

turbobrick240 · May 19, 2017

A little odd, but fantastic news. Hopefully the fix approval for gen 1 and gen 2 mt is right around the corner. Looks like the crushers won't be eating so well after all.

CleanDieselTD$ · May 19, 2017

Wow, totally unexpected news. That's a significant number of cars that might avoid being scrapped.

On the flip side, if anyone is interested in buying a 2012-2014 Passat, PM me. I'd rather sell to someone who will get maximum benefit from the car than VW.

tdiDreaming · May 19, 2017

I hope that is the reasoning..

GoFaster said:
It's quite possible that the number of manual transmission vehicles in that specific model did not make it economically viable to develop and validate a solution for those. We shall see.

I'd hate to think that VW had to tweak the DSG software to control RPM's, etc. as a critical step to the "fix" strategy....

VWMark · May 19, 2017

Article is very specific, 2012-2014 Passats with DSG. Weird!

gcodori · May 19, 2017

Looks like VW went from newest (gen3 fix first) to oldest.

This is not surprising as the newer cars are are being fixed first, so they could apply the fix to the returned cars too.

The Gen2 cars will have more miles, and there are no "New old stock" sitting around to be fixed and sold like th '15s.

Also not surprising that the DSG is the requirement - the Gen3 fix for phase one seems to have reprogrammed the power distribution of the DSG in order to meet emissions.

The Gen1 fix will be last, as the economic incentive to develop a fix for cars with 100K+ miles will be near zero.

VWMark · May 19, 2017

gcodori said:
Looks like VW went from newest (gen3 fix first) to oldest.
This is not surprising as the newer cars are are being fixed first, so they could apply the fix to the returned cars too.
The Gen2 cars will have more miles, and there are no "New old stock" sitting around to be fixed and sold like th '15s.
Also not surprising that the DSG is the requirement - the Gen3 fix for phase one seems to have reprogrammed the power distribution of the DSG in order to meet emissions.
The Gen1 fix will be last, as the economic incentive to develop a fix for cars with 100K+ miles will be near zero.

There's also the fact that the newest ones are the easiest to fix!

tadawson · May 19, 2017

This does make sense . . . Considering that one of the ways to hit the emission target is to not allow the engine to run under conditions where it does the worst, DSG programming changes can help to implement this strategy. Unless they have found a way to reprogram drivers, this is not possible with a manual . . .

- Tim

jdyno718 · May 19, 2017

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en...c_Approval.pdf

Looks like it is confirmed. fix is for 2012-2014 Passats with automatics only... LAME

Miss_Athanatos · May 19, 2017

tdiDreaming said:
I'd hate to think that VW had to tweak the DSG software to control RPM's, etc. as a critical step to the "fix" strategy....

The beauty of the automatic: it's the engineer driving your car and not you at all.

-- Nicole

Mark_J · May 19, 2017

Most likely why it is only for 2012-2014 Passats with DSG is these are the ones with the SCR systems, similar to the 2015's. But the manuals do too so kind of strange.

Smashed Ixnay · May 19, 2017

Mark_J said:
Most likely why it is only for 2012-2014 Passats with DSG is these are the ones with the SCR systems, similar to the 2015's. But the manuals do too so kind of strange.

RandomGuy · May 19, 2017

jdyno718 said:
https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en...c_Approval.pdf

Looks like it is confirmed. fix is for 2012-2014 Passats with automatics only... LAME

Agreed.

tdiDreaming · May 19, 2017

One of the footnotes regarding the manuals indicates that testing for the manual version of the cars has not satisfied the requirements to not impact "important consumer attributes such as vehicle durability and reliability." Makes you wonder how they can ensure the reliability/durability of the DSG......

GoFaster · May 19, 2017

That footnote does imply that VW has not thrown in the towel on the manual transmission versions yet.

The market share of manual transmissions in that class of vehicle has got to be pretty small. It probably only affects a few thousand vehicles.

If they are having difficulty with these, despite having SCR, the gen 1 must be immensely more difficult ...

turbobrick240 · May 19, 2017

Are the the gen 1 cars required to meet the same amended emissions standard as the gen 2?

r11 · May 19, 2017

GIANT RED FLAG folx
... this is alarming. It is quite possible fixed G2 will show loss of HP/torque and quite possibly the MPG numbers - esp during initial few miles of driving while engine comes up to the temp.

Unlike G3, where, after Stage 1, both HP and torque got a boost and there was no effect on the MPGs that anyone could see.
EA288 in G3 was designed from the get-go to be compliant with then upcoming emissions requirements, so it made it possible to meet the amended (about 2x of actual #s in T5B2) NOx #.
Could possibly be related to how long it takes for EA189 to come up to temp. With DSG, they keep the low gear longer, meaning the car is safe to drive (enter hwy etc), albeit @ higher RPMs.

With "fixed" stick, and cold engine, you prolly can not go past 4th w/o loosing torque/power to dangerously low levels - meaning it simply is not safe to operate.

mz1 · May 19, 2017

r11: if what you say is correct, for those Gen 2 owners who would get the fix or would buy in the future a "preowned fixed" car from VW....this could all be reverted with a "performance DSG/Engine tune" right?

and you think the "fixed stick" ones will not make the cut in the future?

GoFaster · May 19, 2017

Let's try to avoid speculation here. The post a couple above contains statements which are completely unfounded.

MBQ · May 19, 2017

CleanDieselTD$ said:
Wow, totally unexpected news. That's a significant number of cars that might avoid being scrapped.
On the flip side, if anyone is interested in buying a 2012-2014 Passat, PM me. I'd rather sell to someone who will get maximum benefit from the car than VW.

PM sent

rotarykid · May 19, 2017

Matt-98AHU said:
That's pretty strange, yeah, re: DSG only fix.
No update from VW or the court settlement website yet. Will be interesting to see more details.

this is related to the fact that passing emissions is always easier on automatics compared to the manual trans version of the same car....

automatics can be programmed not to allow certain conditions that might lead to failing the e-test...

while in a manual tran's version the shifts are totally under the control of the driver, which can make passing the e-test a little harder....

rotarykid · May 19, 2017

r11 said:
GIANT RED FLAG folx
... this is alarming. It is quite possible fixed G2 will show loss of HP/torque and quite possibly the MPG numbers - esp during initial few miles of driving while engine comes up to the temp.
Unlike G3, where, after Stage 1, both HP and torque got a boost and there was no effect on the MPGs that anyone could see.
EA288 in G3 was designed from the get-go to be compliant with then upcoming emissions requirements, so it made it possible to meet the amended (about 2x of actual #s in T5B2) NOx #.
Could possibly be related to how long it takes for EA189 to come up to temp. With DSG, they keep the low gear longer, meaning the car is safe to drive (enter hwy etc), albeit @ higher RPMs.
With "fixed" stick, and cold engine, you prolly can not go past 4th w/o loosing torque/power to dangerously low levels - meaning it simply is not safe to operate.

on power, we here...many of us here happily lived with diesel engines that only had 48 to 67 hp/ 51.5-100 Lb-ft in older IDI diesels. (@ sea level)..

I lived with even less power for years in all of my NA 1.6 L diesels jetta/golf/Passat/audi 4000s & 5000s/ Volvo versions of the 4,5 & 6 cyl. diesels in high altitude colorado,....

up here those numbers dropped down to mid 30s Hp/ upper 40s Lb-FT

Nebelwerfer · May 19, 2017

rotarykid said:
this is related to the fact that passing emissions is always easier on automatics compared to the manual trans version of the same car....
automatics can be programmed not to allow certain conditions that might lead to failing the e-test...
while in a manual tran's version the shifts are totally under the control of the driver, which can make passing the e-test a little harder....

Or maybe the fact that there are more DSGs on the roads than manuals and they concentrated their efforts on getting the majority compliant and then work on the smaller number of manual transmission TDIs.

Regards

srow · May 20, 2017

I wonder what this means for Gen 1's... I really wish they'd hurry the hell up, being in Canada I'm not entitled to anything until that decision is made. (bought after Sept 2015).

How similar are the Gen 1 3.0L and Gen 1 2.0L?

ymerej · May 20, 2017

On the flip side said:
Wow how very altruistic of you haha,not me vw is buying back my 13' Passat with 35k miles on it for $26,500 I bought it 4 years ago for $27k there is no way in hell private party will pay that much. I hate to see it go really love the car and the size but money talks. Just bought 17' Jetta 1.4 auto se for $21,800 I will pocket $4,700 bucks and get brand new car. Love tdi's but money talks.

GoFaster · May 20, 2017

srow said:
I wonder what this means for Gen 1's... I really wish they'd hurry the hell up, being in Canada I'm not entitled to anything until that decision is made. (bought after Sept 2015).

How similar are the Gen 1 3.0L and Gen 1 2.0L?

Not even remotely. The 3.0 V6 always had SCR from the outset. The Gen 1 2.0 never did.

If they're having trouble getting the Gen 2 2.0 to be compliant (with the relaxed requirements), the Gen 1 2.0 will be a lot more trouble.

The big difference between the Gen 2 2.0 (with SCR) and the Gen 3 2.0 (with SCR) is that with the Gen 3, the emission control components were built into the design of the engine rather than tacked on afterward (the chain of catalysts is under-floor). The catalyst system is much more closely coupled to the engine - which lets it heat up faster and stay hot, which it needs to in order to work.

BLyons · May 20, 2017

Curious that this is only for auto Passats. I just spoke to a VW dealer who is getting a 14 manual Jetta back from Volkswagen that he claims was part of the buyback and fixed by VW, and he made it sound like they're fixing the 12-14s and sending them back. I was a little confused by that since I had read this thread yesterday. Plugging the VIN in the portal shows that a fix is not available and hasn't been performed though. I'm thinking he has to be mistaken, but I'm also not sure why VW would be sending him a '14 Jetta.

GoFaster · May 20, 2017

The dealer is wrong.

This fix is for the automatic Passats because evidently VW does not have a solution for the manual versions that is adequate yet. It's pretty well known nowadays that it's easier in general to pass emission test procedures with automatic transmissions rather than manuals. Every gearchange with a manual involves transient load conditions that are harder to deal with, and automatics can be programmed to keep revs higher or lower as needed in various circumstances as opposed to being stuck with the EPA-prescribed manual transmission shift schedule.

Gen 2 2.0l Fix announcement 5/19/17

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