What happens if your TDI is totaled?

donallen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen 6M
There are a lot of mis-informed people posting to this forum, advocating selling your TDI back asap, because of the "risk" of totaling your car. A few have tried to point out that that risk is not real, but it appears that assumptions and conjecture are Trumping facts. The fact is that if you total your car now, you are entitled to the restitution payment even if the car can't be driven. That it can't be driven would prevent you from opting for the buyback. But if you total it, you will receive the insured value from either your insurance company or the other car's insurance compnay, depending on the circumstances of the accident, plus the restitution payment from VW.

There is no risk of waiting and a lot to be gained: VW is insuring us against depreciation, one of the major costs of owning a car. Rush to do the buyback and you replace the TDI with something else that begins depreciating the nanosecond you drive it off the dealer's lot. The smart move, in my opinion, is to wait as long as possible. That also gives you the opportunity to evaluate a fix, if it materializes.

From the FAQ on www.vwcourtsettlement.com:
My vehicle has been in an accident, and my Insurance Company wants to “Total” it. What should I do?

As long as your vehicle is operable under its own power, and you still have the title to it, or, if the car is financed, your lender holds the title, you can schedule a Buyback and drive it to your preferred Volkswagen or Audi Dealer. If your vehicle is not operable under its own power, you can may attempt to negotiate with your insurance company for a payment to repair it and proceed with a Buyback, or if you decide not to repair the vehicle, you may still be eligible for a restitution payment as long as your vehicle was operable as of June 28, 2016 and was “totaled” or became non-operable after September 16, 2016. If you “totaled” your vehicle and sold it to your insurance company on or after September 18, 2015 but before June 28, 2016, you would qualify under the Settlements as an Eligible Seller and may qualify for benefits as long as you registered online as an Eligible Seller or submitted an Eligible Seller Identification Form by September 16, 2016.
 

PFCoppinger

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Location
Worcester, MA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen
Their theory is that if the car is wrecked and cant be driven, that they will get (i) the insurance payment for the value of the car, PLUS (ii) the restitution amount; and that this sum will be much less than the "buyback amount" because the cars lost value as a result of the scandal.

I have noticed that the retail value of the cars--OK, my car-- increased over the summer, and then increased sharply in the last 3 months. Therefore I do not think that the original panicky assumption is true.

There remains the risk that some very expensive mechanical failure might render the car inoperable but ineligible for an insurance payment, but this risk seems so small as to be negligible. If you are rushing to complete a buyback, then you are essentially so afraid of losing $5,000 that you will spend $10,000 to avoid the risk, which is immediately self-defeating.
 

phrinda

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2011 Golf TDI- bought back
The last time (a few months ago) that I inquired with my insurance company (USAA) they said that the insured value of my car was ~$9700. If I add in my restitution of $5700 I get $15,400. That would be a loss of $4,500 vice the buyback of $19,900. That is reason enough for me to get it done quickly.
 

ericy

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Rehoboth Beach, DE
TDI
2015 Golf TDI (wife's car)
Their theory is that if the car is wrecked and cant be driven, that they will get (i) the insurance payment for the value of the car, PLUS (ii) the restitution amount; and that this sum will be much less than the "buyback amount" because the cars lost value as a result of the scandal.
That's what the court documents say, but I have yet to hear of anyone registering for and getting restitution in a case where the car was totaled.
Is the portal even set up to handle this type of claim?
 

patter98

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Location
TC, Michigan
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI SEL, 2015 Touareg TDI Lux
I totaled my car on Nov 12th and accepted the insurance payment as the car was not operable. This was all after already sending in all my documents for the buyback. I called VW and was told to download the paper claims form from the website and there is now sections in it specifically addressing cars totaled after Sept 16, 2016. I filled that out and faxed it this week. I actually received my formal buyback packet last week but am disregarding awaiting for new documents to be filed in portal.

Eligible Owner.
[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New] o[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]If you are the registered owner of the vehicle, complete: [/FONT][/FONT]Steps 1, 2, 3, 4 and 9.
[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New] o[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]If you totaled your vehicle after September 16, 2016, complete [/FONT][/FONT]Steps 1, 2, 3, 5 and 9.
 

hannibal1209b

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Location
Virginia Beach VA
TDI
2013 Passat SEL
I totaled my car on Nov 12th and accepted the insurance payment as the car was not operable. This was all after already sending in all my documents for the buyback. I called VW and was told to download the paper claims form from the website and there is now sections in it specifically addressing cars totaled after Sept 16, 2016. I filled that out and faxed it this week. I actually received my formal buyback packet last week but am disregarding awaiting for new documents to be filed in portal.
Eligible Owner.
[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New] o[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]If you are the registered owner of the vehicle, complete: [/FONT][/FONT]Steps 1, 2, 3, 4 and 9.
[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New] o[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]If you totaled your vehicle after September 16, 2016, complete [/FONT][/FONT]Steps 1, 2, 3, 5 and 9.
I am curious to see what the offer is. I called and asked this exact question yesterday....right after my car was almost t-boned. My documents were approved 11/1 and I am still waiting on an offer. The rep said that if the car is totaled, I wouldn't be eligible for anything other than the restitution payment. That plus the salvage value of my car would b $7,000 less than the buyback. Of course information is sparse coming out of VW who knows what the truth is!
 

senez

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
15 Passat DSG
It's an interesting predicament. Right now, if I take the buyback on my 2015, I'm looking at about $5500-$6000 in my pocket after the loan is paid off.

If my car were totaled, I'd be looking at the $5100 restitution payment, the loan would be paid off due to GAP insurance. Additionally, I have replacement coverage on my insurance, where I'd be eligible for additional money (difference between market value and purchase cost) to buy a new vehicle.

It's certainly a risk to continue driving rather than sell it back now, but a low risk. I certainly don't wish to have my vehicle totaled in any way.
 

donallen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen 6M
The last time (a few months ago) that I inquired with my insurance company (USAA) they said that the insured value of my car was ~$9700. If I add in my restitution of $5700 I get $15,400. That would be a loss of $4,500 vice the buyback of $19,900. That is reason enough for me to get it done quickly.
If you sell the car back now and replace it with something new, the something new will immediately begin depreciating, a significant cost. If you wait until 9/2018 to do the buyback, with the high probability that you don't total your car, you get the buyback price, perhaps with a mileage adjustment if you go over the per-year cap and you save the depreciation cost over that time, which can be thousands. With low probability, you total your car. Unlikely, but not impossible. Then you get insurance value+restitution and you've saved the depreciation cost. If you've ever taken a course in probability, the expected value of waiting is higher and therefore the better choice.
 

halbert

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2014 sportwagen
I'm going through this right now also. Our JSW was struck on the right rear quarter area hard enough to spin my wife completely around and discharge the side air bags on the passenger side. This blew out the windows among other things. Insurance is listing it as a total loss. Here's what I've learned so far...and I've had one phone call from Lief Cabraser and have requested a second one yesterday late in the day:

1. The insurer will not pay off the vehicle value until I present them with a salvage title. I paid off the loan (VW credit) and got the title in the mail in just over a week. Now I have to deal with DMV to get a salvage title--another 10 days or so.

2. Lief Cabraser told me that the definition of operable is (a) the engine starts at the dealership and (b) it has to move under it's own power. Even a foot or two is sufficient.

3. The (I think somewhat uninformed) dealer is saying that the salvage title will make a difference. Hence the second call to L.C. Hope to get a call back today.

4. In the mean time, the vehicle is sitting at the insurance company inspection lot, out in the weather (this is Philadelphia area). I'm worrying that water will get into something and make it inoperable while it's sitting there. Not a lot I can do about it at the moment. :eek: The sooner I can churn all the paperwork to get it hauled from that lot to my garage, the happier I will be.

5. VW approved my documents online on Nov 29. Waiting on offer letter.
 

phrinda

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2011 Golf TDI- bought back
If you sell the car back now and replace it with something new, the something new will immediately begin depreciating, a significant cost. If you wait until 9/2018 to do the buyback, with the high probability that you don't total your car, you get the buyback price, perhaps with a mileage adjustment if you go over the per-year cap and you save the depreciation cost over that time, which can be thousands. With low probability, you total your car. Unlikely, but not impossible. Then you get insurance value+restitution and you've saved the depreciation cost. If you've ever taken a course in probability, the expected value of waiting is higher and therefore the better choice.
And then in 2018, when the deadline comes about, buy a car which will immediately depreciate. So the way that I see it, regardless of the probability of totaling a car, I will eventually purchase a car that will immediately depreciate. I either do that now (like I already did) or I do it in two years. I can accept the inevitability of depreciation either now or in two years. If I accept it now, I get all of the money from VW. If I accept it in two years, I accept the risk that I may not get about $5000 even with a low probability of that occurring. Either way, eventually, the new car depreciates.
 

Mr. Furious

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Location
North Carolina
TDI
None
If I accept it in two years, I accept the risk that I may not get about $5000 even with a low probability of that occurring. Either way, eventually, the new car depreciates.
And there are other things that might happen in between now and the deadline, however unlikely - the new administration directs the FTC and/or EPA to revisit the agreement and says TDIs aren't so bad after all so any TDIs still on the road are OK and the settlement is renegotiated. No more buyback or fix, for example, but maybe some level of restitution. Or Volkswagen does some sort of financial wizardry so they can enter into bankruptcy; while settlement stuff is supposed to be paid out first if that happens, at best it would introduce significant delays.

I don't think any of those things are likely, but there are several things that could potentially happen to screw this up, and I'm sure that VW would jump on any out that came up.
 

david950

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Location
Louisiana
TDI
2010 Jetta
I was in an accident (rear-ended, not my fault) 11/4. My buyback appt is 12/16. The insurance company wanted to total my car as well, though it still runs and drives. I held off, and was offered an "owner retained settlement" where I keep the car and they compensate me for the loss, less salvage.

Speaking to the local settlement specialist, it was suggested that if I tow the vehicle to the dealership, I should stop and unload short of the dealership, so that I drive the vehicle onto the lot under its own power. I have no issue with this, and it's what I plan to do.

I informed the settlement specialist that insurance declared the car a total loss, but that I did not sell the car to them, as it was in my favor to sell to VW. She said she understood this. I asked if accepting any other money from the insurance, such as the owner retained settlement, would affect or conflict with my VW settlement and she assured me there was no issue.

As for the salvage title, I live in LA, and I understand each state's laws are different. Here, the salvage title is only issued when the vehicle has been repaired, inspected, and is going to be put back on the road.

Just wanted to share my story as another data point.
 

tjsadler

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
California, USA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE 6m
As for the salvage title, I live in LA, and I understand each state's laws are different. Here, the salvage title is only issued when the vehicle has been repaired, inspected, and is going to be put back on the road.

Just wanted to share my story as another data point.
Per the terms of the agreement I don't think you actually need the title (the salvage certificate and registration should be sufficient) but it will probably make things much smoother at the buyback appt. FWIW My insurance company sent the notice of owner retained salvage to the California DMV and then the DMV sent me a title instead of a salvage certificate. IDK if that was a fluke or what but maybe you'll have the same good luck.
 

donallen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen 6M
And then in 2018, when the deadline comes about, buy a car which will immediately depreciate. So the way that I see it, regardless of the probability of totaling a car, I will eventually purchase a car that will immediately depreciate. I either do that now (like I already did) or I do it in two years. I can accept the inevitability of depreciation either now or in two years. If I accept it now, I get all of the money from VW. If I accept it in two years, I accept the risk that I may not get about $5000 even with a low probability of that occurring. Either way, eventually, the new car depreciates.
If you were buying a new house and Lender A offered you a mortgage with payments beginning next month and Lender B offered you a mortgage at the same interest rate for the same term, but the first two years of mortgage payments would be reduced to principal only, no interest, which one would you take?

What you are missing is that if you avoid two years of depreciation, that's two years less depreciation that you've paid over the remainder of your life, increasing your net worth over that time by that amount, all other things being equal. Paying depreciation on cars starting now is NOT equivalent to paying depreciation on cars starting two years from now, as you seem to think.

As for the total-the-car gamble, as I said, it's unlikely that you will total the car. But if you do total it, you *could* lose some money, compared to turning the car in now, depending on when you total it (total it early and you will lose; total it just before 9/1/2018, and you will be fine, because of the depreciation saved). But the probability of losing is very small. And if you had taken this gamble, the probability is very large that you would win big -- not paying depreciation for two years. Again, the expected value of waiting is higher than selling the car back now.
 

tjsadler

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
California, USA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE 6m
If you were buying a new house and Lender A offered you a mortgage with payments beginning next month and Lender B offered you a mortgage at the same interest rate for the same term, but the first two years of mortgage payments would be reduced to principal only, no interest, which one would you take?

What you are missing is that if you avoid two years of depreciation, that's two years less depreciation that you've paid over the remainder of your life, increasing your net worth over that time by that amount, all other things being equal. Paying depreciation on cars starting now is NOT equivalent to paying depreciation on cars starting two years from now, as you seem to think.

As for the total-the-car gamble, as I said, it's unlikely that you will total the car. But if you do total it, you *could* lose some money, compared to turning the car in now, depending on when you total it (total it early and you will lose; total it just before 9/1/2018, and you will be fine, because of the depreciation saved). But the probability of losing is very small. And if you had taken this gamble, the probability is very large that you would win big -- not paying depreciation for two years. Again, the expected value of waiting is higher than selling the car back now.
Your cute little calculus doesn't take into account the terrible reliability of many of these cars. Driving a newer more reliable make and model could drastically save money if you have any major mechanical issues. Personally, if people say they're giving money away I get in line at the start... :D
 

halbert

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2014 sportwagen
Update on the question: Spoke to someone at Lief Cabrerer on the subject of salvage titles. He consulted with one of the attorneys, and the answer is as we all thought: as long as the vehicle meets the definition of operable, then the salvage title or salvage certificate has no bearing on the payout. If it's totalled to the point of not being operable, then take your insurance settlement and the restitution and call it a day.
 

LeahPharmD

Active member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2004 Jetta TDI Wagon (Bio-diesel), 2012 Golf TDI (SOLD BACK)
Final offer sent 12/7 car "totaled" 12/12

The insurance company wants to total my 2012 Golf. I called the shop and they said it turns on, and is can be driven short distance. I may go visit it today to verify. It will be a hassle to garage it and tow it to the McDonald's next to VW when I get my buyback appointment, but would be in my interest money wise. Here's my question : will the "restitution " amount be different from what it is on my buyback offer if I let the insurance company keep it and I take their settlement ?
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
If you have an offer letter already, the amount listed as "Additional Restitution Payment" will be what you get from VW in addition to whatever you get from your insurance.
 

LeahPharmD

Active member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2004 Jetta TDI Wagon (Bio-diesel), 2012 Golf TDI (SOLD BACK)
DanB36 sent you a Private Message. I am really interested also to hear other's stories about turning in severely damaged but running vehicles
 

phrinda

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2011 Golf TDI- bought back
If you were buying a new house and Lender A offered you a mortgage with payments beginning next month and Lender B offered you a mortgage at the same interest rate for the same term, but the first two years of mortgage payments would be reduced to principal only, no interest, which one would you take?

What you are missing is that if you avoid two years of depreciation, that's two years less depreciation that you've paid over the remainder of your life, increasing your net worth over that time by that amount, all other things being equal. Paying depreciation on cars starting now is NOT equivalent to paying depreciation on cars starting two years from now, as you seem to think.

As for the total-the-car gamble, as I said, it's unlikely that you will total the car. But if you do total it, you *could* lose some money, compared to turning the car in now, depending on when you total it (total it early and you will lose; total it just before 9/1/2018, and you will be fine, because of the depreciation saved). But the probability of losing is very small. And if you had taken this gamble, the probability is very large that you would win big -- not paying depreciation for two years. Again, the expected value of waiting is higher than selling the car back now.
I tried, but I don't see how your mortgage scenario even applies to this situation. Also, the amount that the depreciation not being realized for two years wouldn't really change much as far as net worth is concerned. Until this car, I was driving my VWs for ~10 years. Maybe I am just not intelligent enough, but I don't see how taking depreciation now or later is really any different. It's not like I can take the imaginary money during these two years and invest it. I can't do anything with it. It's not real. It only means something if I want to immediately resell the car. I don't do that. You know what is real? The amount of money that someone will pay me for the asset is real. What is also real is the lesser amount that the insurance co will pay if something happens. I get it the replacement car already depreciated. And a different car in two years will depreciate the same. I can't do anything with the difference between depreciating now or then anyway.
 

tjsadler

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
California, USA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE 6m
The insurance company wants to total my 2012 Golf. I called the shop and they said it turns on, and is can be driven short distance. I may go visit it today to verify. It will be a hassle to garage it and tow it to the McDonald's next to VW when I get my buyback appointment, but would be in my interest money wise. Here's my question : will the "restitution " amount be different from what it is on my buyback offer if I let the insurance company keep it and I take their settlement ?

If you just go ahead and let them total it and it still runs and moves you can basically get paid twice on the car as long as the title stays in your name the whole time. Talk to one of the lawyers to explain your exact situation though.
 

LeahPharmD

Active member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2004 Jetta TDI Wagon (Bio-diesel), 2012 Golf TDI (SOLD BACK)
Thanks everyone for the helpful information. How do I get in touch with one of the lawyers? I called the 844-98-CLAIM but they said a manager will have to call me back within 72 hours.
 
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