another ALH Turbo/Mod Choice thread

I have been doing a lot of reading over the past few years, and trying to distill all the knowledge into what my goals for my ALH Wagon build "Project Roadtrip Warrior".

I currently have another wagon running stock turbo, Titan 520 large hole, 11mm Pump, Malone STG3 custom, TacoTaco sidemount, some bigger piping, and 17" Borbets (heavy wheels). My guess is I'm between 135-150 HP on this setup. I do a lot of high speed highway driving (75+), and getting around 43mpg (was getting 45-48 w/stock 15") and about 40mpg spirited driving in town (smoke a bit before WOT).


My goals for my other wagon "Project Roadtrip Warrior":

smooth power-band & drive-ability
turbo that responds at low RPM/spools fast
priority toward MPG (high 40s to mid 50s)
able to cruise up mountain passes with little effort.
put a smile on my face when i want it to.
longevity and reliability

With every option I will want to improve breathing so I will be going with:
2.5 down pipe and exhaust w/cat
OMI/PD150/Darkside TIP
R32 snorkle, air filter box, 3" MAF
PD150 or plenum style intake
Large SMIC or front mount (havent weighed benefits yet)
larger intercooler piping
debating Racepipe/Stealth EGR vs Dynamic EGR

Also will be running a DRW 6spd and lighter 16" or 17" wheels


Options I've been looking at:

VNT17/DLC1019/Malone Tune "160-165whp Kit"
pros: plug-n-play, proven kit
cons: older turbo tech, limited room for improvement

GTB1752vk
pros: somewhat plug-n-play, bigger breather, bigger top end
cons: higher rpm spool, older tech

GTD1752VRK
pros: 5th gen turbo, quickest spool, big breather and top end
cons: not as plug-n-play

GTC1549vz
pros: cheap turbo, quicker spool
cons: not plug-n-play, not a big breather

Some questions about fueling:
instead of blazing my own path I'd like to see some opinions on nozzle, pump, tune options that optimize MPG but still gives some nice drive-able power. I have 10mm and 11mm pumps available, and would be choosing which nozzles/tune to pair with the turbo i select. I've scoured over a ton of post on fueling and it seems like people are either looking for power or mpg, I'm looking or a happy medium.


What I'm leaning toward:
GTD1752VRK (Vacuum converted fabbed to ALH manifold), 11mm pump, DLC1019 (set for MPG), tune to match with dynamic EGR (for in town driving). Results I'd be looking for around 180hp with mid 40s in town, high 40's-50s on the highway. Basically a MPG-minded setup with room to grow.

I've seen some post about people asking Ryanp for an GTD1752VRK kit, is this in the works/is he looking for some guinea pigs?

VAG-Aficionado said:

What I'm leaning toward:
GTD1752VRK (Vacuum converted fabbed to ALH manifold), 11mm pump, DLC1019 (set for MPG), tune to match with dynamic EGR (for in town driving). Results I'd be looking for around 180hp with mid 40s in town, high 40's-50s on the highway. Basically a MPG-minded setup with room to grow.

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This is good. A 3 bar MAP goes without saying. I would actually go with Race520 with low smoke calibration and eco-minded tune with short injection duration and not too early SOI near full load. I would also even go with a 3" exhaust.

A 6-speed with proper (tall) ratios for the top 2 gears will help your highway mileage considerably.

I have seen it recommended to run a 4bar MAP on the GTD1752VRK. I'm sure i wont be utilizing the higher boost capabilities, but should I have that for room to upgrade?
I never even considered race520s... Is the reasoning to future proof my set up if i wanted to go max hp?
How much MPG will I sacrifice going from DLC1019 or even DLC764 (the size I've seen recommended for this turbo)?
I know on the "160/165 horsepower kits" they say there is a MPG hit with DLC764's over the DLC1019's with increased power. I suppose this is also dependent on how they are setup.
Another options would to go with the 764 "7hole" nozzles. Looks like those will flow between the 764s and the race520's, but possibly with better efficiency and fuel economy...I dont mind being sub 200hp if it means I am gaining a few mpg

VAG-Aficionado said:

I have seen it recommended to run a 4bar MAP on the GTD1752VRK. I'm sure i wont be utilizing the higher boost capabilities, but should I have that for room to upgrade?

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You're already going to upgrade, sure - why not.

I never even considered race520s... Is the reasoning to future proof my set up if i wanted to go max hp?

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Yes and no. Yes for the reason you stated of having headroom in the future. No - it's the same type of injectors used by VW Motorsport more than 20 years ago in its 190 HP endurance racing TDI. VW engineers placed a high value in increasing fueling and power by increasing injector flow while maintaining near stock injection durations for best efficiency, low smoke and durability. Read here.

Another options would to go with the 764 "7hole" nozzles. Looks like those will flow between the 764s and the race520's, but possibly with better efficiency and fuel economy...I dont mind being sub 200hp if it means I am gaining a few mpg

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Stick with Race520s.

That's a good read... Thanks for that.

So what I gathered is they had .260 injectors set up for low smoke and were actually running better efficiencies than stock. (They did have some other engine mods to help).

Another interesting note was them talking about Ram Air Intake adding low-end torque to a 4valve TDI (dont know the impact on our 2valve engines). I know the consensus of ram air around here and that our cars come with a ram air system...but I'm wondering if a shorter,more direct path to the turbo will help with low end spool/torque (of course with a better TIP). It looks like this is the setup VWracing uses: https://www.racingline.com/vwr12g60d
Also it seems like some MK6 TDIs are getting less smoke with this setup:
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5131994-APR-Presents-2-0-TDI-Carbon-Fiber-Intake-System!

I think CAI doesn't work because most of the setups sit behind the battery and still rely on the stock air delivery as well as warmer air from the engine compartment. A system like this is closed and would only take air directly from the stock opening in the grille, and route it directly back to the turbo. It would probably decrease distance as well as the multiple twists and turns from the stock system. I know the argument that the stock air box isnt the choke point, but it sounds like the MK6 guys are seeing some reduced smoke with the APR Carbonio setup. The only negative I see is its ability to mitigate water intrusion, unless it could be mounted back of the grill connected to the stock intake plastic cover. If I can find one cheap I'd like to run some test to see if it made a difference in spool, efficiencies (decreased smoke/higher mpgs).


didnt want to bring up the dead horse debate, but interesting to see ram air brought up in this paper.

They are explicitly not talking about CAI or "ram-air" in the sense you are thinking about. They are talking about using a different intake manifold to exploit resonance tuning. Lots on the subject here if you search nearly 20 years of knowledge here (search combinations of keywords like "long runner, SDI, Helmholz, Helmholtz, resonance tuning, etc." with "intake manifold".
Example (more reading): http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4054834&highlight=Burghardt+Arnold#post4054834

The recent find is that the flowbench-supported hot tip is to install a BRM manifold, forget a PD130 or 150 one out of Europe.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=487862&highlight=BRM+manifold

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=487862&highlight=BRM+manifold

More great info... it did look like they were running what looked to be similar to an d24.

Good info on the BRM... may have to scrap the idea of dynamic EGR and just run a stealth.

VAG-Aficionado said:

it did look like they were running what looked to be similar to an d24.

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Top of page 125 of the TDI-R paper. It was from an SDI.

Good info on the BRM... may have to scrap the idea of dynamic EGR and just run a stealth.

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BRM and dynamic EGR are not mutually exclusive. There are instances where EGR is beneficial for fuel economy, specifically in speeding up coolant warm up from cold-start.

TDIMeister said:

BRM and dynamic EGR are not mutually exclusive. There are instances where EGR is beneficial for fuel economy, specifically in speeding up coolant warm up from cold-start.

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It looks like Malone sells the adapter, but then I would have to fab some mounts for the egr cooler. I guess that wouldnt be horrible. I'd like to not take such a MPG penalty when it starts getting cold and I'm tooling around town.

You should be able keep the ALH EGR cooler. It's just accordion tube connecting the cooler to the throttle body. You can use braided flexible tube or something like that between the flanged ends.

TDIMeister said:

Top of page 125 of the TDI-R paper. It was from an SDI.

BRM and dynamic EGR are not mutually exclusive. There are instances where EGR is beneficial for fuel economy, specifically in speeding up coolant warm up from cold-start.

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A Webasto Diesel fired coolant preheater would negate that positive.

1tdi said:

A Webasto Diesel fired coolant preheater would negate that positive.

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I'd actually love to put in a webasto... my Touareg had one and it was great to be able to keep it warm when i parked in the winter. I think it also kicked in automatically when it got cold enough.

I've got a climatronic, but don't know where to source the wiring for it to work with the webasto. I have seen guys on here have done it ahile back.