**** HELP **** lound ticking noise

**** HELP **** loud ticking noise

03 beetle 188,000 , 5sp (stock).l changed oil every 10,000 or less with 5w40 synthetic, timing belt changed at 86,000. So its due for belt change. Loud ticking noise , sounds like lifter to me , will pull valve cover later today. Checked timing and it does not eve show on screen will this make the engine tick loud. When cold it will take 10 secs or better for engine to fire after that starts right up.

Lifter are pretty common to go bad. I had one die in my alh and swapped it out with a 5cyl 20valve one that was laying around. I'd check cam for heat stress while you're there. Sounds like you're on the right track though. GL

If its just a lifter can I just replace cam and lifters without pulling head?

Yes. You should check to see it there is a collapsed lifter.

With the engine warm, and the cam @TDC, and valve cover removed, you can push on the cam followers with a screwdriver or wooden dowel and 'feel' if they sink, are frozen or feel right. They should have a little bit of movement to them. 1/2 of the lifters can be checked with the #1 lobes "UP" and then, turn the crank until the #1 lobes are DOWN, and check the rest. I would guess one would feel particularly loose.

To remove the cam and check cam follower faces, loosen timing belt tensioner, remove timing belt from Cam Sprocket. Loosen the cam sprocket bolt by using a counterhold tool. Loosen the bolt a few turns and leave it in, for the moment. If you don't have one, we can supply any of the timing belt tools. There is a sprocket buster tool, but a small hole melted through the timing belt backing plate near the top of the hub of the sprocket will do the trick. We use a pencil soldering iron to do the job. Place a long, 1/4" punch through the hole, and smack it with a 5 lb mallet. Cheap and easy... Now you can remove the sprocket.

Remove vacuum pump. Loosen the cam cap nuts from cam cap 1,3 and 5, then incrementally loosen #'s 2 and 4. Remove cam caps. PLEASE NOTE THE DIRECTION AND LOCATION OF CAM CAPS!! The 1 and 5 can't be mixed up, but 2,3 & 4 LOOK IDENTICAL. Mark them or look for the #'s on the tops of the caps. Caps are not only fit for location, but they are also directional. The moon cut goes to the manifold side.

Now you can lift the cam out. Look at the tops of all the lifters to see if there is any wear in the tops. 'Bow ties' or straight lines on the lifters are indication the cam and followers are worn out.

We stock replacements or upgrade mod cam kits, timing belt tools and plenty of great hints and tips for our customers.

Questions? Let me know.

No obvious signs of a lifter going bad, was turning motor with cam tool and heard a snap timing belt went very loose.

phawkins224 said:

...was turning motor with cam tool...

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And that was your BIG mistake...

1854sailor said:

And that was your BIG mistake...

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Yep. Stop what you are doing and don't crank the engine because something in the timing belt path isn't right. Get the timing belt kit and replace all of the parts. If you aren't up to doing it yourself, tow it to someone that is. Just don't crank the engine.

Franko6 said:

...then, turn the crank until...

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^^This

so i have not done this but just want to verify. you never turn the motor with the cam? only with the crank? just want to make sure, i didnt know it mattered unless you had the cam lock in and or were going in the wrong direction. . good to know...fortunately i have ...

i was using the cam tool to turn engine over by hand, trying to get the engine to TDC, 2 turns I heard a pop and timing belt went loose. It no problem setting crank , pump and cam to TDC . Just thank god the engine was not running

Apparently what happens when you turn the engine with the cam is that you put tension on the tensioner wrong. This is likely what happened here.

Phawkins, are you saying that after the pop and the belt going loose, you ensured the locking tab for the tensioner was correctly seated, then loosened the tensioner, set everything to TDC with the cam gear and injection pump loose then tensioned the tensioner and tightened everything back down?

If so I'd still be concerned about that pop. Sometimes that locking tab will break. 'Twere me, I'd pull the engine mount and inspect the tensioner and everything else until I knew where that pop came from.

timing belt kit on order, will replace and reset timing on crank, pump and crank and re-evaluate. Timing belt procedure states when complete to turn crank by hand for several rotations to make sure engine turns correctly and pistons and valves to do come together.

phawkins224 said:

...to make sure engine turns correctly and pistons and valves do NOT come together.

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There, I fixed it for you...

1854sailor said:

There, I fixed it for you...

Click to expand...

I read it twice and didn't catch that. Sometimes we read something and are thinking it correctly and don't notice mistakes like that. Good catch.

phawkins224 said:

i was using the cam tool to turn engine over by hand, trying to get the engine to TDC, 2 turns I heard a pop and timing belt went loose. It no problem setting crank , pump and cam to TDC . Just thank god the engine was not running

Click to expand...

When turning the engine by hand, the tension/force should always be on the non tensioner side of the belt. What you did was put the tension/force on the tensioner side of the belt and damaged the tensioner. Just guessing but the tab may have been forced out of it's recess.

IDK if you can damage an IP by turning it backwards, but on non IP engines BEW & BRM you can turn from the cam if you turn the engine CCW. Tension would still be on the non tensioner side of the belt and no harm would be done.

Complementary rant: The term "lock tools" is a misnomer. The tools do not lock anything and if you are putting any sort of load on them, you are DIW. A more accurate name would be "indexing tools."

Someone posted that they were going to remove their cam and wanted to know if it was O.K. to use the cam "lock tool" when they broke loose the cam hub bolt. I suppose it would be O.K. if you didn't mind tearing the timing hole out of the head and/or destroying the cam indexing tool.........

Complementary rant off.

I did not turn anything counter clock wise. I was using the cam tool to turn engine to get to TDC to pull the cam and check the lifters. On the 2nd turn I heard a pop and the timing belt got loose. I have ordered a timing belt kit. Will hopefully get it replaced this week end. Was looking for some advance and guidance from the veteran guru's on TDI forum. Thanks to the one that did advise me, but same of the responses had smart ass comments. Thought this forum was for asking for help, but I guess some members do not think so.

Re-read my post. In a nut shell: if you turn by the cam you need to turn CCW. If you turned by the cam C/W, you put the turning load on the tensioner destroying it.

Turning the crank backwards (CCW) does the same as turning the cam CW and stresses the tensioner.

i have read your reply, my question is how would you turn the to get cam to TDC? What you are stating is that after any timing belt change it always states turn engine by hand using cam turning tool and if that puts stress on the tensioner you run the chance of ruining a brand new tensioner when doing a new TB change

I'm wondering why you're still asking about turning with the cam?
Turn it with the crankshaft nut. It works every time. Just do it.

phawkins224 said:

i have read your reply, my question is how would you turn the to get cam to TDC? What you are stating is that after any timing belt change it always states turn engine by hand using cam turning tool and if that puts stress on the tensioner you run the chance of ruining a brand new tensioner when doing a new TB change

Click to expand...

Forget my explanation. More info than you really need to do the job right.

Always when turning the engine over, by hand, turn in the direction of engine rotation from the crankshaft. Do not turn the engine over from the cam.

Here is my concern with this entire issue. Even if the engine were turned by the cam, the chances of making it skip a cog when the belt is set up right is just about 0. Are you saying the timing belt tensioner broke? Nut came loose? What happened?? In any case, this is a troublesome issue.

I recall one timing belt that came to us installed on a 'new to him' car. The belt was loose, and had been for 30,000 miles from a bad install. We correctly set the timing belt tensioner. The next week, the tensioner stud snapped in half, causing the usual belt failure damage. I felt I contributed to the failure and we rebuilt the cylinder head and timing belt for 'parts only' on a 16 hour build.

If this engine's timing belt became loose enough to cause the belt to pop over the cam sprocket, then I would NEVER again, 'just set it'. I would remove the timing belt, tensioner and tensioner stud, motor mount bolts and replace them. If you aren't sure of the other timing belt parts age, do it all.

It's not a lesson you want to learn yourself. Take it from me. Or as I put it, don't step on that 'landmine'! I have been there and it's not pretty.

What scares me is if some shop M&Ped your belt, started the car with the timing off, corrected their mistake well enough to get it out of the shop and then sent you on your merry way.

A lady did post that her timing belt broke and "Jethro" put a new belt on it and did state that "it seems to run fine now so go ahead and drive it and let's just see what happens".

excellent info here guys. thanks for taking time to post. i keep learning every time i read this place. fortunately i have always done it the right way but didnt completely understand why...love to learn