HPFP Failure in V6 TDI, or only in 2.0 CR?

Trooper81

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Nov 6, 2001
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Hey everyone,

I Haven't seen anyone post a failure of their HPFP that drives a Touareg with the v6 tdi. So can we safely assume they arn't affected? Also, I noticed most failures in the USA, are there any failures reported in Canada? Does this point to a difference in fuel quality?
 

tditom

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formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Hey everyone,

I Haven't seen anyone post a failure of their HPFP that drives a Touareg with the v6 tdi. So can we safely assume they arn't affected? Also, I noticed most failures in the USA, are there any failures reported in Canada? Does this point to a difference in fuel quality?
Haven't seen a report on the V6 yet.

Canada has the more stringent lubricity requirement.
 

dubStrom

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adblue

Does urea solution additive also have lubricity additives?
 

tdiatlast

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I believe urea is injected AFTER combustion, in the exhaust, but I might just be peeing into the wind...
 

tditom

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I believe urea is injected AFTER combustion, in the exhaust, but I might just be peeing into the wind...
:D b'dump-cheeeee (rim shot sound effect)

Yes- the adblue/urea injection system is completely different than the high pressure fuel pump feeding diesel through the common rail.

Lubricity is a non-issue in urea.
 

dubStrom

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:D b'dump-cheeeee (rim shot sound effect)

Yes- the adblue/urea injection system is completely different than the high pressure fuel pump feeding diesel through the common rail.

Lubricity is a non-issue in urea.
OOooo, duh...Please forgive my mistake
 
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Trooper81

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Ontario Canada
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Just heard of a guy in sweden that had his HPFP disentigrate on his 2008 V6 TDI touareg leaving metal shards in his fuel system, with the typical replacement of everything fuel related, this is with Euro fuel!
 

tdiatlast

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Just heard of a guy in sweden that had his HPFP disentigrate on his 2008 V6 TDI touareg leaving metal shards in his fuel system, with the typical replacement of everything fuel related, this is with Euro fuel!
This will mean nothng to most of us here unless you get us details.
 

Trooper81

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This will mean nothng to most of us here unless you get us details.

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f43/coolant-leak-driving-safery-47205.html
the link shows all the details i know..

HE said they replaced his fuel system under warranty, when asked about it he says.

"The reason given for replacing the complete fuel system was traces of metal chips from somewhere ending up in the HPFP. Most likely left in some part from manufacture and not cleaned properly before assembly."

sound familiar?
 

tdiatlast

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Thanks, Trooper, for the link.

Curious that, at 7000k, the HPFP grenades and they blame it on sloppy manufacturing? That doesn't make sense to me.
 

DPM

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As I've mentioned in the past, CR- pumps have been disintegrating here in Europe since 2000-ish. Early Peugeot HDIs were notorious for it...
 

Trooper81

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Maybe this is really a pump manufacturing issue, i wonder if BOSCH makes all the pumps, including the ones BMW recalled.
 

tditom

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Bosch pumps used by BMW diesels have been fine. HPFP recall was on their gassers.
 

ssamalin

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Bosch pumps used by BMW diesels have been fine. HPFP recall was on their gassers.

BMW are 6cyl. Do any 6cyl HPFP explode? Is there any data on 6 vs 4, build date, model, manufacturers, that even slightly clarifies the defect? And yes I am deliberately saying defect.
 

tditom

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BMW also makes 4 cyl diesels that they sell in the rest of the world. Haven't heard about widespread Bosch diesel HPFP failures (4, 6 or 8 cyl) much outside the US, but DPM indicates above that there have been problems in the past.
 
T

TDI Rooster

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:D b'dump-cheeeee (rim shot sound effect)

Yes- the adblue/urea injection system is completely different than the high pressure fuel pump feeding diesel through the common rail.

Lubricity is a non-issue in urea.

Toureg TDI needs topping up/ replacing Ad-blue-Urea into injection system every 2 years, as told when at a dealer before taking on a Jetta TDI which doesn't need it because it's build on a different platform?
 

tditom

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Yes- The 4 cylinder CR does not use urea injection. The V6 CR does.
 

Harvieux

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The local to me VW dealer has had an Audi Q7 3.0 V6 CR TDI require an entire fuel system replaced due to HPFP failure. This was several months ago and the shop foreman, who I know quite well, told me this issue is huge. They also had several VW Jetta/Golf CR HPFP failures as well. Later!
 

Trooper81

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The problem seems much greater in the U.S.A. than in canada, if it in fact is a bad design problem. Keepin a keen eye out. I haven't seen very many posts about v6 tdi's only 2 known issues. Crossing my fingers that my touareg doesn't have any issues.
 

Cool Breeze

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Just heard of a guy in sweden that had his HPFP disentigrate on his 2008 V6 TDI touareg leaving metal shards in his fuel system, with the typical replacement of everything fuel related, this is with Euro fuel!
People seem to forget that parts which fail early in their life cycles is usually due to a build/design failure rather than the environment inwhich they're asked to perform. Lubricity related issues for a HPFP wouldn't manifest themselves until thousands of miles down the road.
 

Trooper81

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People seem to forget that parts which fail early in their life cycles is usually due to a build/design failure rather than the environment inwhich they're asked to perform. Lubricity related issues for a HPFP wouldn't manifest themselves until thousands of miles down the road.

BMW had problems with their gas hpfp, i even heard of a few Equinox and GMC terrains HPFP's blowing up on the new Direct injection engines. Could have been a bad batch, I don't see anyone even mentioning those issues.
 

ZiggyTheHamster

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I believe urea is injected AFTER combustion, in the exhaust, but I might just be peeing into the wind...
"Peeing into the wind" is pretty much exactly explaining what urea does... :p They inject it in the exhaust and expel it into the air. Since urea is similar to pee... You get why your comment is so funny :)
 

Drivbiwire

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We have 1 CP3.5 and 2 CP4.0+ pumps, zero issues. No additives, just straight Shell #2 fuel.

I honestly think the failures are due to high moisture and then shipping time from the factory. Moisture will kill a pump quickly.

On a new TDI 2.0, I'd use some Power Service from day one up until around 10K once the pump has some miles on it. Gets rid of any free water and allows some time for the pump to settle in (just like the rings/cylinders on an engine).
 

bhtooefr

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Just out of curiosity, can you get photos of the tags on your Benz CP4 pumps?

It'd be interesting to see what part Mercedes used there, versus what part VW used on the V6 TDIs.
 

Drivbiwire

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Sure...

Bosch Part#'s

W211 - I6 - BOSCH# 0445010091 - CR/CP3S3/L90/20-89115
W164 - V6 - BOSCH# 0445010135 - CR/CP3S3/L90/20-89115
W164X - V6 - Same engine as the W164

The pumps are all a 3 plunger design with a single outlet and pressure/volume regulator.
 
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