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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old February 3rd, 2001, 16:20   #1
SkyPup
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Default WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

At the 3rd International Colloquium - Fuels 2001 -held in Esslingen, Germany on 17-18 January 2001, Dr. M. Gairing of DaimlerChrysler AG, Stuttgart, outlined ideas for a new version.

While the WWFC was being drawn up, discussions were already under way with both Japan and the USA, in parallel, for a new version with sulfur levels of <10ppm for both gasoline and diesel fuels. He said that it was his belief that the future was "lead-free and sulfur-free".

There is a wide range of fuel standards around the world, offering varying levels of quality. He said that we need to develop a world-wide quality for fuels because fuel is an important engineering element for all vehicles.

The discussions need to involve customers, the oil industry, the automotive industry and governments. It is his belief that emissions standards cannot be achieved without adequate fuel standards. The most important single parameter today is sulfur but all other parameters must be respected.

Dr Gairing then went on to highlight the current differences between the existing standards for diesel (EN 590) and gasoline (EN228) and the new proposals for WWFC Category 3 / 4. Dr Gairing felt that a gap of 5 points in the current Cetane No/Cetane index is too great as this has a significant influence on the noise of a diesel engine. Similarly of the density is too high then emissions will rise and if it is too low, then the power will drop. He felt that the only way to guarantee new developments is for fuels to go sulfur free.


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Old February 3rd, 2001, 16:25   #2
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

European Carmakers Seek Emissions Cuts;

"Impossible" Says America

By 2008, all ten of Europe's carmakers intend to develop a new fleet of vehicles that emit no more than 140 grams of CO2 per kilometer. This is roughly equivalent to a car doing 41 miles/gallon.

This statement was made by Andre Rault, general secretary of the European Council of Automotive Research & Development (EUCAR) at the 80th Annual Meeting of the Transportation Research Board (TRB) in Washington, DC, USA on 8 January 2001.

According to Rault, data monitoring in Europe shows that CO2 emissions from vehicles have dropped from 190g/km in 1995 to 170 g/km in 1999. In 2003, the vehicle manufacturers intend to review progress on the agreement made in 1998 with European governments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

So far much of the improvement has been attributable to the increased use of diesel engines and, according to Rault, "gasoline engine technology at the present time is not making the progress that it should. The EUCAR vision of the future includes diesel engines gaining an even greater share of the European market over the next decade, which will contribute to reaching pollution reduction goals. With this in mind the European Commission intends to review progress so far and then see whether it would be possible to drop the target to 120g/km."

For the Americans, Daniel Sperling of the University of California asked Rault how the European vehicle manufacturers can be so confident and comfortable about reducing CO2 emissions and increasing fuel economy while their American counterparts say it is impossible - whose European operations are co-operating in the cuts!

In response, Rault said there was a basic difference in philosophy between the two nations - energy consumption and conservation have been part of the European way of life for generations, which is not the
case in the USA. This was reinforced by John Wallace, chairman of Ford Motor Co's Innovative Technologies Division who added that "In Europe, diesel engines make up nearly 50% of the total fleet and if this was to be the case in the USA, then fuel economy could be improved instantaneously by 20%."


It appears the Americans can only dig their hole deeper and deeper?
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Old February 3rd, 2001, 16:51   #3
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

For anyone interested, here is the World Fuel Charter that they are talking about:

http://www.acea.be/acea/WWFCharter042000.pdf


It is a 504K PDF published by the European Automobile Manufacturers Association, The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (USA), Engine Manufacturers Association(USA), and Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association.

Great educational reading and reference material.
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Old February 3rd, 2001, 16:58   #4
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

Here is an excerpt on the concerns regarding diesel fuel quality parameters:

COMMENTS RELATED SPECIFICALLY TO DIESEL SPECIFICATION

Comment: Why is cetane requirement reduced as weather gets colder?
Action and rationale: The refining of light volatile fuels to improve cold start operation in extreme conditions can adversely affe ctcetane number. The practical considerations are that a lighter fuel to enable cold starting takes precedence over cetane number under these special conditions.

Comment: Emission changes are small in terms of g/km if higher cetane limits are achieved.
Action and rationale: As emissions regulations become more stringent, small improvements become both difficult and important. Numerically small improvements are important and translate to tons of pollutants, which is meaningful to governmental agencies and the environment.

Comment: Increasing Cetane Index Number will cost fuel economy and power. Would require refineries to add new plant equipment and reduce fuel lubricity.
Action and rationale: Diesel fuels meeting all Charter requirements need to be optimized to match vehicle requirements.

Comment: CI is redundant and inappropriate.
Action and rationale: Natural cetane (number) is pertinent to performance. Cetane Index limits cetane improver additives to reasonable levels.

Comment: Poly aromatics are the problem, not total aromatics.
Action and rationale: Poly aromatics are certainly a problem and the charter addresses this issue separately. Total aromatics have been shown to influence exhaust emissions, particularly NOx emissions from HD diesel engines.

Comment: Future technology may reduce fuel effects to the cetane number and it is too early to conclude poly aromatics
contribute to PAH in exhaust.
Action and rationale: Turnover in the diesel fleet is slow, emission improvements are needed now. Should revised cetane limits
become appropriate in the future, they will be considered. There is evidence that PAHs contribute to PM and exhaust PAH.

Comment: No need for separate T90,T95, and FBP standards.
Action and rationale: The charter states that only one of T90 and T95 must be met. FBP prevents fuel from containing highly involatile material that adds to particulate matter.

Comment: Lower carbon content in fuel will lead to higher carbon content in other refined products.
Action and rationale: The charter is focused on automotive fuels and does not attempt to improve the CO 2 emissions of other industries.

[This message has been edited by SkyPup (edited February 07, 2001).]
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Old February 4th, 2001, 19:07   #5
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

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Old February 5th, 2001, 04:49   #6
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

Man O' Man, with the new high quality diesel fuels containing a minimum of 50 cetane, VWOA can finally import and sell PUMP-DUSE TDI technology and meet current emissions.

Bring it on VWOA, we are patiently waiting!
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Old February 5th, 2001, 05:01   #7
Ric Woodruff
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Join Date: Feb 1999
Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyPup:
Man O' Man, with the new high quality diesel fuels containing a minimum of 50 cetane, VWOA can finally import and sell PUMP-DUSE TDI technology and meet current emissions.

Bring it on VWOA, we are patiently waiting!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, you are under the FALSE assumption that no other TDI engines are here because of fuel issues. The reality of the matter is that it is purely a MARKETING issue. It simply is not worth the trouble of bringing other model here, with having to go thru EPA Certification, etc. on such a small, small demand. Heck, we don't even have a PASSAT TDI here for the exact same reason I mentioned. Try explaining that, if you dare.

Get your head out of your a$$, SkyPup!

Believing that "improved" fuel quality will bring other TDI engines to North America is merely wishful thinking.



------------------
Ric Woodruff

1998 Jetta TDI Custom Sport



[This message has been edited by Ric Woodruff (edited February 05, 2001).]
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Old February 5th, 2001, 05:14   #8
DieselDeamon
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

Hey Ric, Lmao, His head is their and he's Bent over waiting on one of those Fat,Smelly,Garbage Trucks, Fat, Well mr sky pup u have all the answer's so ya say, hmmmmmmmmm, Any how do you have a Diet For those trucks to go on since their soo fat, ROFLMAO,
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Old February 5th, 2001, 05:20   #9
DieselDeamon
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

Roflmao, They way he gets so excited, about 50 centain Fuel, I wonder hmmmmmmm was that artical in the last Penthouse mag, Lmao i can Pic we can all pic Skypup sitting their Choking the stroker saying Omg omg were going to get 50 centain diesel,Omg huff huff pufff ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh yea yea omg, oppps. Hey Mr Fat stinkey garbage Truck driver Bring me a Towel, Chill out skypup
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Old February 5th, 2001, 05:58   #10
DZLguy
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: All over Southern Ontario
Fuel Economy: 68/62/58 (Imperial)
Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

DD:

Maybe you don't agree with SkyPup, but is there any real good reason to berate him like that? State your reasons for disagreeing, prove your point, but why stoop to the childish bantering as displayed in your posts here?
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Old February 5th, 2001, 06:26   #11
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DieselDeamon:
Roflmao, They way he gets so excited, about 50 centain Fuel, I wonder hmmmmmmm was that artical in the last Penthouse mag, Lmao i can Pic we can all pic Skypup sitting their Choking the stroker saying Omg omg were going to get 50 centain diesel,Omg huff huff pufff ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh yea yea omg, oppps. Hey Mr Fat stinkey garbage Truck driver Bring me a Towel, Chill out skypup <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks to you and Woodriff for sharing that information with us.
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Old February 5th, 2001, 14:51   #12
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

Fill 'er mit PRIMO
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Old February 6th, 2001, 00:03   #13
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

Here is a draft of the State of Texas preliminary changes to their diesel fuel regulations set to come into effect next year:

http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/oprd/ru...s/pa99055a.pdf
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Old February 6th, 2001, 00:06   #14
SkyPup
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Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

Here is the latest law in Texas upgrading diesel fuel supplies to higher levels:

http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/oprd/rule_lib/ad00011d.pdf
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Old February 6th, 2001, 04:17   #15
DieselDeamon
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: WV
Default Re: WorldWide Diesel Fuel Charter 2000

Yea i have a Good Reason and Ill say on behalf of others on here, Skypup Fill's up band with Over and over posting info, Whene it could have all been said in 2 post at the Most, and he also called USA Diesel Dorks, that sat bad on my Blood, plus he post stuff whene asked for Proof he wont post the proof
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