To port or not to port...

Mozambiquer

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Versailles Missouri
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2004 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2012 Audi Q7 V6 TDI, 1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
Okay, I'm going to be redoing the head on my 98 jetta tdi I'm building, my question, does porting and polishing the head do any noticeable good on the tdi? I'm looking mainly for fuel economy gains, and if it'll be detrimental to that, I'd say probably not, but have any of you guys ported your tdi's head, and does it help any?
Thanks!
 

flee

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Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
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2002 Jetta GLS wagon
If you are keeping the stock turbo, don't bother with porting, just clean it up.
At most, match the intake and exhaust ports to the manifolds.
See if the cam is worn enough to replace, use new lifters and lap the valves.
 

Mozambiquer

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2004 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2012 Audi Q7 V6 TDI, 1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
If you are keeping the stock turbo, don't bother with porting, just clean it up.
At most, match the intake and exhaust ports to the manifolds.
See if the cam is worn enough to replace, use new lifters and lap the valves.
Okay, I am not keeping the stock setup, I am either putting one single larger one or a compound setup.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Jul 1, 2016
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Vancouver
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PD jetta wagon
Kind of boost levels are you planning for? Probably best to just clean up the casting marks, if you disrupt the swirl pattern it will do more harm than good. Different story if you're a performance diesel builder who ports heads regularly and knows most of the trade secrets.
 

shortysclimbin

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Oct 15, 2004
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Virginia currently
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Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
I think we have a lot of threads on here about on alh / ahu heads (very similar).. honestly what is your goals. Fuel economy and compounded turbos don't usually go hand in hand.

With that being said I have seen increases in fuel economy from better headwork. I say work as I usually am doing valves, cams, intakes, and turbos at the same time.

Here is one I finished last spring..


Its setup like this (I really need to do a build thread for you guys)..
 

newlitemotorist

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Indiana
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06' Jetta TDI dsg, 445,000 miles and counting!
It will help if you know what you're doing! These engines run so little lift that a good valve job will make the biggest difference. Don't think a generic 3 angle valve job is good, or even a 5 angle. Working the valves themselves is also worthwhile verses porting anything other than the pockets. Do your research on low lift heads and you will see what I'm talking about. DO NOT remove any material that is unnecessary as all this will do is increase port volume and reduce velocity.
 

Fix_Until_Broke

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Aug 8, 2004
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Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
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03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
Read this thread and then make a more educated decision.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=307098

If you're going for fuel economy - I'll echo the others and don't touch the heads or the compression ratio. Clean up any casting marks, do a good valve seat job, consider relieving the area around the valve seat in the combustion chamber to unshroud the valve at low lift, etc. Velocity and swirl are what you want to maximize fuel burn. The amount of air in the cylinder is a secondary factor. Getting the air moving as fast as possible to evaporate the fuel and propagate the flame front as fast as possible will give you the most efficient use of the fuel injected into the cylinder.
 
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GOFAST

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nederland
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vento afn
nice project.
I believe compounds and MPG do combine.
how many blades does the turbine of the primary have ?
 

Mozambiquer

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Thank you all! I really should start a build thread, if I have time... I currently have the block rebuilt, I put new pistons and bearings, as well as a new oil pump and etc. Next step is to find a competent machinist to do my valves, I've learned my lesson with incompetent ones!
Thanks guys!
 

flee

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Location
Chatsworth, CA
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2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Thank you all! I really should start a build thread, if I have time... I currently have the block rebuilt, I put new pistons and bearings, as well as a new oil pump and etc. Next step is to find a competent machinist to do my valves, I've learned my lesson with incompetent ones!
Thanks guys!
Franko6 would be my choice, although I had good results with a local head shop.
Many to choose from in SoCal.:cool:
 

newlitemotorist

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Indiana
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06' Jetta TDI dsg, 445,000 miles and counting!
Frank does good work but he is always the first to point out that his focus is longevity over performance. I'm not saying his valve jobs are bad by any stretch, just that there are others who have poured more time and resources into researching diesel performance. If you want a high performance valve seat profile/valve profile, you might consider looking elsewhere.
 
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Franko6

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Jetta, 99, Silver`
I just stumbled across this thread early this morning.

Flee,

Thank you for your vote of confidence. Over the years, we have seen the crap valve jobs come down the pike. Our shop does things to a cylinder head many don't even know needs done. We aim to not just keep, but improve our reputation.

Newlite,

We have modified our approach over the years. We still do plenty of efficiency builds, but as of late, we are building much more innovation and power. The good thing is, you can have your cake and eat it, too. Fuel economy and big performance do not need to be exclusively independent of each other; they just can't be done at the same time... We have found some parasitic drag reduction tricks that are very unique. Sometimes, it's not making power, but keeping from using it up the wrong way.

FUB,

I know we have had our disagreements and respectfully, I have to disagree again. The exhaust port is so poor that is it hard NOT to improve it, even for a stock-built engine. Intake swirl can be improved also, but bottlenecks in the exhaust are just wrong and always will be. Here is an old pic of Matt Whitbread's, which really does not do justice to how bad the exhaust port really is:
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/mrwhitbread/head8.jpg.

This really doesn't show it all, but that port is a restriction. When we first started attacking it, we got reports back of with reduction of exhaust gas temps with the same build parameters. Nothing wrong with that...

Evaporating fuel?? We are talking about a diesel. There is no evaporation, but the swirl is very important as it literally 'bends' the flame path and keeps it from hitting the combustion wall as quickly. But there is no 'evaporation'. That is gasser talk.

To all:

You can talk all day about seat angles, incident of opening, swirl etc, but if you got a potato stuffed into the exhaust pipe, it still won't run.

Porting changes based on purpose, but all one has to do is feel the square corner on the inside turn of the exhaust to know something is very wrong. I have been told I'm wrong for fixing that, but then in later years of VW engines, VW fixed that issue, much as I have been doing.

From the point of the seat to the turn in the exhaust, it narrows down, causing increased heating inside the port, increases turbulence and reduces flow. Also, there are right angles in the intake port where cracks emanate from that will crack into the water jacket on highly modified engines. We think this is a case where 'leaving that alone' has very negative effects.

Lately, we also got criticized to what we refer to as a 'port match'. Well, it isn't exaclty a 'match' we do, but a technique we learned from an expert who has four record-setting cylinder head porting jobs to his name. Most recently, was with Dart. He pointed out some improvements that I needed and explained some very interesting principles, which we apply. One was about 'reversion', which I will not explain here, but it is a real eye-opener for effect and simplicity.

As for our ability, we are only limited by our imagination and the time in a day. We are going to take a huge step to overcome our personal shortcomings that we can't make a longer day, but sure can use it more efficiently. We will be announcing our latest big improvement within a couple of months. It is a large step in the right direction for us.

As for cylinder head work, you realize, Mozambiquer, you live relatively close to me; about 3 hours away? Come on down. I'll show you around. Nothing really to brag about, but we do make a lot of work go in and out.
 
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Votblindub

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Dec 22, 2010
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NY
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MK4 Jetta Wagon
(I really need to do a build thread for you guys)
Yes. Yes, you do!

Mozambiquer, go see Frank. He still has my engine for a little while longer. If it's a build close to mine, I'd say to go through with porting it.
 
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