injector bodies which are best pd 1.9

fergyp

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Wanting to upgrade nozzles on a pd130 to dssr 130% what bodies are best to use I hear the bew bodies flow better through the channel is this true
 

KERMA

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to answer the OP question:

US-market BEW injectors are the cream of the crop. Europeans should be importing US-market injector bodies for their power projects. (not the other way around)

Consider PD130/150 injectors akin to the 10mm injection pumps on an ALH, then BEW injectors are like 11-12mm injection pumps. IOW BEW injectors are the hotrod of the Pumpe duse injector bodies.

WITH IDENTICAL NOZZLES, you will make 15-20% more power using BEW injector bodies, than you will with PD150 injector bodies. The hot ticket is to start with us-market BEW injectors, then add some big nozzles.
 

fergyp

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do they av to be bew because here in the uk trying to source some bew injectors is hard i can get pd115 pd100 injectors no problem
 

devonutopia

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I heard PD105 1.9 bodies were the best, but I have seen no supporting evidence or statistics about them. I'll be a little gutted if so as I would appear to have sourced a set of injectors for my DSSR 130s which were not optimal.
 

KERMA

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105 hp are probably the same as BEW
 

LNXGUY

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I heard PD105 1.9 bodies were the best, but I have seen no supporting evidence or statistics about them. I'll be a little gutted if so as I would appear to have sourced a set of injectors for my DSSR 130s which were not optimal.
Is there any evidence that XX injectors and better then YY? I've always assumed BEW and PD150's were identical (sans the nozzles)
 

KERMA

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definitely NOT identical.

There's more to it than just "plunger size" internal flow path is different (more twisted and convoluted on the "non BEW" = restrictive) and internal restrictor plates also. Non-BEW are essentially throttled by design. BRM is worse because of small piston. BHW is non-BEW.

Going to BEW (or maybe even 105 hp) bodies vs PD150 is good for more hp. Seen this over and over again. Guy using "special imported Euro 60k miles" PD150 injectors with R783, 190 hp. Other guy, same everything, same tune, same turbo, same nozzles, same everything, but BEW injectors, 215 hp. Never fails. More power with BEW vs PD150.
 

devonutopia

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So, has anyone actually bench tested the AG (pd105) vs the AL (pd130/150) with the same nozzles fitted, for comparison purposes?

I don't fancy looking in to the AG bodies for my car unless there is a proven gain. Plus it would mean time off the road and more garage and united diesel labour to take my 130s off my AL injectors and fit them to AG injectors. :)
 

Deanamite

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So, has anyone actually bench tested the AG (pd105) vs the AL (pd130/150) with the same nozzles fitted, for comparison purposes?

I don't fancy looking in to the AG bodies for my car unless there is a proven gain. Plus it would mean time off the road and more garage and united diesel labour to take my 130s off my AL injectors and fit them to AG injectors. :)
X2 I've got some pd 105s to change from my 150s if there is a gain to be had!
 

AnniBooster

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So, has anyone actually bench tested the AG (pd105) vs the AL (pd130/150) with the same nozzles fitted, for comparison purposes?

I don't fancy looking in to the AG bodies for my car unless there is a proven gain. Plus it would mean time off the road and more garage and united diesel labour to take my 130s off my AL injectors and fit them to AG injectors. :)
This is the kind of thing that I am sure Keith at United Diesel would look into if requested. I've spoke to my mapper who said that they may flow a little more at the bottom end but past 3k they flow the same.

Time to get scientific and get some back to back bench tests imho rather than
try it and see - I see the scene tax on 130/150pd injectors disappearing if this is the case though! I have a set of 150pd ones sat in my garage awaiting funds to go bigger than my 783s.
 

rspring

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I have BEW bodies with Firad +80 nozzles. No telling the performance yet as we are not complete with dyno tuning. Hoping for 300/450. When I told Jeff at Rocketchip, he indicated that the PD150 bodies would have flowed better.

I agree it needs actual testing.
 

doktorec

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We have disassembled many PD injectors to fit our custom nozzles.We didn't see any difference in piston size.
KERMA said there is difference in internal restrictor plates? Can you prove that. Do you have pictures?Or pictures from a microscope?Anything?
 

Drivbiwire

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definitely NOT identical.

There's more to it than just "plunger size" internal flow path is different (more twisted and convoluted on the "non BEW" = restrictive) and internal restrictor plates also. Non-BEW are essentially throttled by design. BRM is worse because of small piston. BHW is non-BEW.

Going to BEW (or maybe even 105 hp) bodies vs PD150 is good for more hp. Seen this over and over again. Guy using "special imported Euro 60k miles" PD150 injectors with R783, 190 hp. Other guy, same everything, same tune, same turbo, same nozzles, same everything, but BEW injectors, 215 hp. Never fails. More power with BEW vs PD150.
Absolutely correct.

There is an additional 180 degree flow reversal in the primary hydraulic channel in the PD150 that limits the peak pressure/volume delivered to the nozzle.

As in any hydraulic circuit, every single 90 degree change in direction drops the pressure and peak volume.

The US BEW / BHW (8.00 mm) injectors use a high volume high pressure flow channel with VERY low flow nozzles to get the cleanest emissions.

The US BRM (7.50 mm) injectors use a higher flow set point to offset the lower volume and peak pressure...this forces higher peak pressure thru slightly longer stroke range, but this greatly limits peak delivery volume since the effective stroke is less by virtue of the narrower high pressure plunger bore. These use similiar nozzles to the BEW however the key limiting factor is the smaller pump section.

The PD150 uses the large 8.00 mm bore and higher flow nozzles. However they limit output in the primary hydraulic channel. This was per Bosch to make it probitive to tune or modify the ECU for greater after market performance. Generally if these are used the car suffers from higher EGT's and long injector duration to get the quantity needed for power. This also requires a lot of advance which really works against you and generally chokes the nozzles due to cylinder over pressure and excessive temperatures at the nozzle.
 
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A5INKY

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...The US BHW (7.50 mm) injectors use a higher flow set point to offset the lower volume and peak pressure...this forces higher peak pressure thru slightly longer stroke range, but this greatly limits peak delivery volume since the effective stroke is less by virtue of the narrower high pressure plunger bore. These use similiar nozzles to the BEW however the key limiting factor is the smaller pump section...
I was under the impression the BHW injectors are 8mm. Did you mean BRM?
 

Alcaid

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The PD150 uses the large 8.00 mm bore and higher flow nozzles. However they limit output in the primary hydraulic channel. This was per Bosch to make it probitive to tune or modify the ECU for greater after market performance.
Got a Bosch reference for that statement?
 

devonutopia

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United Diesel in the UK are currently undertaking bench testing with different bodies using identical nozzles. Personally I am eagerly anticipating the outcome. :)
 

mgbiker

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Here is what you can find in the Bosch product detail:
038130073AG- Bosch # 0414720215- Nominal pressure 292,00 bar
038130073AL - Bosch # 0414720039 - Nominal pressure 288,00 bar

which proves that PD105 have more pressure.

In this thread is a list of other injectors which have 292bar :
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=400890&highlight=BEW+injectors
 

Drivbiwire

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It's slightly more complicated than that...

The PD150 has a designed in flow limiting circuit, and it really is that simple...
 

Alcaid

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You said it was as per Bosch, just asked where they published this statement or is it something you comcluded yourself?

My PD130/ASZ uses the AL injectors, and even though they are not tuneable according to your conclusions I am seeing 184% whp compared to stock to compare the same way you do.
 
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