TDI for Bonneville

Hello all,

I had started thinking about the diesel records at El Mirage and Bonneville and had posted a few threads a couple years ago here but now will get serious about this. We will build a car to test the engine in (2006 BRM Jetta) then transfer it to our streamliner. Our Blog is www.victorymotorsports.org. We hope to push this 2L record close to 300MPH as the current NA gas record we were running in is 270MPH so with a turbo I would think we may be able to approach 300MPH in our streamliner.

I know there is another page here for all out racing and will post there if this isn't the right page for this.

We are looking for help in this venture from anything to complete race engines to used parts, bottom ends, Rods, Pistons, Crank girdle, injectors etc etc.

Anyone with parts or interest in this adventure please feel free to contact me. We will post questions and updates here as we go along with this build. We hope to get it all done in a few months time with some advice from this community!

Thanks Burton

Streamliner pic

Whew that sounds like fun.

Probably will end up with a large wastegated turbo I imagine.

Well this looks like a good time!

Very cool. How much power do you think it would take to break 300 mph in that streamliner? I'm curious what the ideal temp/atmospheric conditions are for that kind of run. I would think dry and moderate temps. Cooler air is more dense, but can also give more power. Good luck!

We got the double eagle streamliner (V10 touareg) to >200 mph on the salt with just a tune. It is the current class record holder. FWIW, several other tuners could not get it out of limp mode before we got a crack at it. Bigger build is happening this year. But 300mph is going to be a tall order for a BRM, no matter how its built. Even 200 mph won't be easy (but it is achievable). Even if it's very very built. You will have a lot better/easier results with a common rail engine. A lot more potential in those. Don't let the current state of street tuning (as discussed on these forums) disuade you from a CR because that's a whole different ball game. It's all going to come down to gearing and how much torque you can make at the right rpm.

Ain't no tuner but I will follow your build and help out if you come out to El Mirage.
If a Jetta wagon can go 150+ you should be able to do a lot better!

Flee,

Great ,,,yes could use help at Elmo. Ill keep you posted. I plan on being there the first 4 events...

The 2L Gas record (NA) record at Bonneville is 270MPH and guessing that was done with less than 360HP. So I am thinking 400-450HP and ??? on Torque. I would like to talk to someone who has actually made 350HP + and see what it really takes. I have some other options for engine choices but wanted to see what is really involved and what parts you can make work.
Burton

Subb'd, cool project.

Ryan @Darkside developments has made over 400 hp on bkd engine. That is a 16 valve PD engine. He has been running stock internals. He has also junked a few. It depends what you want for reliability. If you want to take a risk at going there and doing a run on a big turbo engine with little investment it might workout ok or it may melt down. If that happens you try again next year with better build. I think you need to do good build and deal with the thermal heat and expansion that will happen in a pull taking place for a very long period of time. Very different durability than what is required for the 1/4 mile builds that most on here have had success with.

TDIsyncro said:

Ryan @Darkside developments has made over 400 hp on bkd engine. That is a 16 valve PD engine.

He has been running stock internals. He has also junked a few.

It depends what you want for reliability.

If you want to take a risk at going there and doing a run on a big turbo engine with little investment it might workout ok or it may melt down.

If that happens you try again next year with better build.

I think you need to do good build and deal with the thermal heat and expansion that will happen in a pull taking place for a very long period of time.

Very different durability than what is required for the 1/4 mile builds that most on here have had success with.

Click to expand...

Good & Wise words above! Anyone trying to do a long "REAL" high speed run like you are talking about creates heat and stress loads not encountered in what most here have experience with.

You must not only produce the power you looking for, you must add the extra lubrication and cooling required to keep the heat & lubrication loads within acceptable levels to prevent melt down or parts failure due lack of adequate levels of either....

Remember you have to survive passage staying within cooling, lubrication & materiel fatigue limits in one functional piece down the salt & back to get the record....

Getting down the salt is not usually the issue, but getting back up the salt being able to hold speed is!

!Good Luck!

relaibility

Yes guys all great advice and yes it will need to do it more than once as its the average between the two runs that makes the record and your first pass that puts you in impound has to be faster than the current record.

So with that said maybe a lower overall HP number should be the goal initially and then work up to it.

Does anyone have realistic numbers for 300-325HP what that would give for torque? I'm also assuming with good Rods and Crank Girdle 6000RPM is a safe number?

Burton

Torque is not your problem. You need HP and the gearing/revs to be available to get to your target velocity.

The 4000 lb Buckeye Bullet did over 300 mph at Bonneville with a 400 hp electric motor. I don't know what the drag coefficient of that streamliner is, but must be pretty low. Seems that drag is more of a factor than power.

Going by an electric motor's "rated" power is not representative of what it's actually developing, because they can be operated way above this rating for a short period of time, not to mention what the battery packs and power electronics are delivering that really decide the output of the motor.

Later evolutions of this same vehicle use 2 1500 HP e-motors, one over each axle.

Yeah, I was thinking they could easily have (and likely did) boosted the elecric motor output. I believe the current diesel land speed record of 350 mph is held by the JCB Dieselmax with twin JCB444 diesels, each making over 700 hp. And running 90 psi of boost!

turbobrick240 said:

Yeah, I was thinking they could easily have (and likely did) boosted the elecric motor output. I believe the current diesel land speed record of 350 mph is held by the JCB Dieselmax with twin JCB444 diesels, each making over 700 hp. And running 90 psi of boost!

Click to expand...

Just figured I'd add a couple links to this reply..

https://www.google.ca/search?q=jcb+...UICCgB&biw=1173&bih=805#imgrc=RSYMy3c7ibW2YM:

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=JCB Dieselmax&item_type=topic

325hp should be fairly reliable if you can get the cooling flow. A road car with that power has 440lbs Torque roughly but you need much more power at upper RPM, 5600rpm seems to be about where we cap most stuff but i'm sure you can keep the HP to higher RPM with the right setup. Spool wont be a concern but you can go TOO big and never make the PR you need

Drag racing is not all high speed so the damage is done early on in the run usually, we have made a lot of changes for 2017 so in theory reliability should be much better, a stock motor can only go so far and we know exactly what breaks now!

you must go for big holset hx40 super as single and a engine that loves to rev for a diesel is more the cr or ve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKofLl3O2s8

Come on. HX40Super is old school. Like 20 years. There are much better options available, and which are sized properly.

the JCB is using a interstage cooled compound setup.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2006/2006-JCB-Dieselmax-Engine-1280x960.jpg

why not do the same ?

yes youre right hatemi bw EFR serie is top of the line
maybe better to compound

Compounds do completely different roles to singles. There is simply no comparison, especially to any specific brand, whether "top-of-the-line" or not.

I also don't get the preoccupation with revs. It's HP that matters and if you have the gearing, it doesn't really matter what RPM it's developed. The key is that BMEPs are not excessive, that's all. There are other downsides to excessive revs that are not discussed. The JCB streamliner used engines adapted from backhoes and the like, and even when modified for the Diesel land speed record runs, I believe they turned over at only 2700 rpm (Edit: Correction - 3800 rpm) .