First Test Drive Article - the 2012 VW Passat TDI

tdireader

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Don't most GMs need a flush at 30-40k miles?

still snoozing here....got a call into my father in law this AM. He is 84 yrs old and looks good for the targetmarket for this car.....Buick is trying to sell him a new LUCERNE. Told him that his SHIP is arriving at the VW store in the Fall and it will get him better mileage and more safety and that it has a huge backseat to take their elderly friends to senior outdoor bowling on sundays.
Warned him he will spent a thousand bucks in the first 4 years servicing his automatic transmission though....you know what his reply was?? I never serviced any transmission for any GM I have ever owned and I have owned over 20 of them. Oh those new granpa and grandma customers VW is trying to get in the VW world are gonna flip at the service mgr when Mr Service advisor tells them that....cause ya know the Sales dept WONT.
84 - 16 (driving age?) = 68 driving years
68 driving years / 20 cars ~= 3.4 years / car

So, if he doesn't drive much, he MIGHT get by w/ a TDI. That is, if they are still doing "free scheduled" maintenance and it includes the DSG. It probably won't cover anything but oil changes since it will end at 30k and the DSG will probably stay at 40k for the first change.
 

tdi90hp

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84 - 16 (driving age?) = 68 driving years
68 driving years / 20 cars ~= 3.4 years / car

So, if he doesn't drive much, he MIGHT get by w/ a TDI. That is, if they are still doing "free scheduled" maintenance and it includes the DSG. It probably won't cover anything but oil changes since it will end at 30k and the DSG will probably stay at 40k for the first change.
NO free services in canada..the land of the overtaxed and overpriced as our currency soars above the US softgreenback....secondly when he was young he had years when he traded 3 times...he keeps em 5 yrs....does not bother with a 89 dollar flush...
 

GTIDan

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The July issue of both Car and Driver and Road Test have 'first drive' impressions of the new Passat. Both articles were pretty much favorable.
 

MyAvocation

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NO free services in canada..the land of the overtaxed and overpriced as our currency soars above the US softgreenback....secondly when he was young he had years when he traded 3 times...he keeps em 5 yrs....does not bother with a 89 dollar flush...
Most GM trannys require a flush at 70k.
For the record, many of us have no interest in a Golf. Dumb idea to tell peeps what they should drive.
 

Ted Hurst

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I talked my mother into a 2005 Passat GLS. She now only has 45,000 miles on the car. The TDI would not make sense for her because she drives a few miles and turns it off. She bought it off lease. VW Credit kept upping the incentives to buy it during the great recession. They didn't want it back! I think she ended up with a $1000.00 Visa card for purchasing it at the end of her lease.
 

EJS

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Can the DSG shift faster and return similar fuel economy as a true manual transmission? Yes. How does the DSG fair when compared to a true manual in the "Fun" department? Complete and utter failure.
I'm not coming down on either side, simple a guess as to why certain options aren't available w/ a manual.
 

kjclow

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Let's see, where to start on making several comments about other posts:

Size: Jetta is still rated as a compact. Passat should be rated as a mid-sized. Similar to civic and accord size ratings

Mileage: Accroding to the reviews, the Passat DSG is rated at 31/43 mpg (EPA), while the Jetta is rated at 30/42. According to what some are reporting in other posts, there is about a 10% boost in real world fe for the manual.

"free" service: Runs for 3 yrs or 36K miles. Just under the initial DSG service. I think VW planned it this way.
 

Sappington

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Most GM trannys require a flush at 70k.
For the record, many of us have no interest in a Golf. Dumb idea to tell peeps what they should drive.
Indeed. Besides, I'm interested in either the Passat Wagon or the Polo. The Golf becomes a tweener. Of course, that assumes that those models appear at some point in NA.... :rolleyes:
 

abctdi

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"free" service: Runs for 3 yrs or 36K miles. Just under the initial DSG service. I think VW planned it this way.
How hard can it be to R&R some fluid?
It's called maintenance...
The DSG is not really a slush box since it has no torque converter.
 

kjclow

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This being my first DSG, I have no idea what is involved in the service. Might be like my S-10 where you have to lift the rear alxe and crawl under the back-end to check the tranny fluid by removing the fill bolt at the top and stick your finger in. If it came out wet, there was enough fluid.
 

04SlvrJetta

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Most GM trannys require a flush at 70k.
For the record, many of us have no interest in a Golf. Dumb idea to tell peeps what they should drive.
Yeah, but is it worth it? The tranny will die soon...just how much sooner? I don't know if they still do, but my wife's car had the 100k spark plugs in it. They got changed at 90k when the engine was rebuilt. :mad:

Seriously, I would have never considered a VW before getting my Jetta. Of course, the key feature is the TDI, but I really like the car...and I really don't understand why VW doesn't understand that people keep buying these because they like VW's...not because VW makes their car like everybody else...sad, really. The only people I know who have had VW/Audi products that didn't go back for a second one did so because of poor product support & service. Why doesn't VW get that?????
 

SilverGhost

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I sure hope wagon, that UVoA wagon is reading wagon this thread wagon and sees that there is a desire wagon, for a WAGON! (Not so subtle I know) :D
I went to the Passat launch class and the same sentiment echoed there as what I had heard from managers from VW - no wagon for the foreseeable future.

This thing is built to what the vast majority of Americans want so that VW can sell over 100,000 units a year. The buzz over on the Vortex is the same - people like us are P.O.ed about model and option selection but reality is we are the minority.

Most people drive automatics and are too lazy to drive a stick, so the manual is usually for the entry level consumer. Most of the design is the way it is to be more main stream while still having a VW feel to it. As for the plastics used inside I had this discussion with my wife "Do you want pretty, soft surfaces we have to pay to fix every couple years or these not so pretty plastic surfaces that will last a long time?"

We are contemplating trading in the '08 2.5L SE for a Passat. The only real way to make this all add up for us is a career change that the car will fit nicely into. Shuttling people around in a MKIV or V always make me cringe that they'll break something. In the new Passat or Jetta that worry is gone, just hop in the car and go.

At this point just be glad that we are getting a TDI Passat, Jetta, Jetta wagon, Golf, and Touareg. That is a LOT more choice than what we got just a few years ago.

Jason.

PS: didn't mean to point this all at BeetleGo, just started there and got on a roll.;)
 

Dooglas

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I'm interested in either the Passat Wagon or the Polo.
Somewhat of a drawback to be only interested in the ones you can't get ;). I do share your admiration for the Polo, but it appears that we will get none of the "micro" diesels here - Polo, Smart, Mini, or Fiat 500. On the other hand, the Sportwagen is a very nice vehicle with a bunch of room. Seems like that vehicle meets the needs of most small wagon fans out there.
 

kellym

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I think the car is certainly promising based on this first drive; should sell well. Wagon version, please?
Amen on the wagon version. Otherwise I will forced to put another 100,000 on my current 2005 Passat TDI wagon (unchained this year).
Whats with the idiocy of requiring the sunroof to get all the other goodies? Sunroof for Arizona is like selecting the quick bake version instead of slow bake. Interested in opinions re DSG vs manual. Wasn't happy manual was not available with 2004-5 TDI, but have gotten used to the Tiptronic.
 

tdi90hp

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i am sure the wagon will come....so will the loaded stick.....gotta keep something up your sleeve.....but VW blew this story from the get go....the car is BORING. they could of made this car sexy and swoopy and a lot more style. witness some of the new style big leap improvements....2012 Volvo S60, upcoming Malibu, new audi a4, next gen bmw 3 series, alfa 159, and of course current gen hyundai sonata and kia optima (even though i am not a lover of korean iron...you cant argue with audis x designer in some of the current designs)
IMHO...the 2012 is a lost styling opportunity and looks like a car that could of been state of the art in 1996
 

EJS

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i am sure the wagon will come....so will the loaded stick.....gotta keep something up your sleeve.....but VW blew this story from the get go....the car is BORING. they could of made this car sexy and swoopy and a lot more style.
You've seen the CC, right? They have "swoopy"...........and.........winner, winner "swoopy" simply means "oh wow, you copied Mercedes" (the exact thought when the CC debuted).

It is exactly what appears to have made the new Jetta a success, a standard sedan with a very low entry level price. Winner for VW is the sales run the same, sucked in by price & actually buying a higher cost version.
 

BeetleGo

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Not all of us find the new Passat boring. Classic might be a better word. This car will live a long long LONG life as a TDI. I'd don't want the extra curls and wiffles you refer to. Think early 70's Volvo 164, 80's BMW 5 Series, 90's Audi A6. Everything pre-90's Mercedes. Classic, not boring. ;)
 

atc98002

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Not all of us find the new Passat boring. Classic might be a better word. This car will live a long long LONG life as a TDI. I'd don't want the extra curls and wiffles you refer to. Think early 70's Volvo 164, 80's BMW 5 Series, 90's Audi A6. Everything pre-90's Mercedes. Classic, not boring. ;)
I agree with you. I like the looks of the latest Jetta, and the same goes for the new Passat. My only gripe is the decontenting of the Jetta. If I could have optioned it the same as the new Passat, there would be one in my driveway right now. The new Passat is just too big for us. So what did I buy? A new Tiguan. While that appears to be a contradiction about size, the Tiguan is actually several inches shorter than my Jetta was. I lot taller, as I found out the first time I pulled it into the garage and the antenna was going to get tangled in the TV antenna I have hanging in there :D.

My Tig has every toy, bell and whistle I wanted except for diesel. Since they just announced that it will be 2015 at the earliest for a TDI Tiguan, I feel pretty good about this one.:)
 

tdi90hp

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to each his own...tehy can style a car but these new cars just bore me so bought the most boring of all...the golf....big room and big practicality...go boring BIG. they could of done more....c'mon guys...honestly,...you would all be unhappy if the car was drop dead stunning as well??? cmon admit it....sex sells.
 

jasonTDI

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Given the faster shifting & equal mpg of the DSG I guess they just figure those who want a manual are cheap bastages who aren't interested in options :D
What, a crap transmission that fails flywheels like water and needs a spendy fluid change sometimes MORE than every 40K mile so it shift right? Yep, sign me up for that.....Not. Did I mention the torque limitations of it and the COST to replace the parts and or the whole transmission when it pukes out? No thanks. I'd rater have a manual or a real automatic that I'll know what I'm in for.

Did I mention I think the trans sucks?
 

BeetleGo

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to each his own...tehy can style a car but these new cars just bore me so bought the most boring of all...the golf....big room and big practicality...go boring BIG. they could of done more....c'mon guys...honestly,...you would all be unhappy if the car was drop dead stunning as well??? cmon admit it....sex sells.
What you call sexy, I call trendy.
What you call boring, I call classic.

To each his own. Buy a Focus! :p
 

EJS

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What, a crap transmission that fails flywheels like water and needs a spendy fluid change sometimes MORE than every 40K mile so it shift right? Yep, sign me up for that.....Not. Did I mention the torque limitations of it and the COST to replace the parts and or the whole transmission when it pukes out? No thanks. I'd rater have a manual or a real automatic that I'll know what I'm in for.

Did I mention I think the trans sucks?
Hey :D don't shoot me, I ain't saying anything is better......just guessing why they're configured the way they are :D

I have a phone (nav) and in my area the big leak hole in the roof is worthless :)
 

tdi90hp

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What, a crap transmission that fails flywheels like water and needs a spendy fluid change sometimes MORE than every 40K mile so it shift right? Yep, sign me up for that.....Not. Did I mention the torque limitations of it and the COST to replace the parts and or the whole transmission when it pukes out? No thanks. I'd rater have a manual or a real automatic that I'll know what I'm in for.

Did I mention I think the trans sucks?

Ditto, ditto,ditto, ditto.......could not have said it better myself. I tried everything I could to get my sister in law to buy a stick in her new JSW....I warned her.....she got a DSG.....direct shift garbage is what my new name is for it. I know to many of you its a wife thing or whatever but my wife was the same....I stuck to my guns and now she loves her 6 speed...even in the traffic.
 

SilverGhost

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The DSG is a 02M 6speed manual from a GTI/GLI/etc. with solenoids shoving the shift forks and working the clutches. Failure of those things is limited to clutch, electronics, and massive toofed (hit bowling ball at 75 MPH and broke case). Electronics are all in one unit except one temp sensor (mechatronics = valve body + TCM). And we have seen no clutch failures. One trans case though, but that was impact from outside object.

I would take one over a slushbox any day, BUT would rather shift it myself.
 

EJS

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Ditto, ditto,ditto, ditto.......could not have said it better myself. I tried everything I could to get my sister in law to buy a stick in her new JSW....I warned her.....she got a DSG.....direct shift garbage is what my new name is for it. I know to many of you its a wife thing or whatever but my wife was the same....I stuck to my guns and now she loves her 6 speed...even in the traffic.
LMAO, define "traffic". Try LA, DC, Atlanta - where a 20 mile trip is normally 1.5hrs and can easily get hosed into a 4 - 5hr trip. A couple weeks in DC traffic & you'd be getting divorce papers :D

Circumstances are great determiners in one's needs.
 

tdi90hp

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LMAO, define "traffic". Try LA, DC, Atlanta - where a 20 mile trip is normally 1.5hrs and can easily get hosed into a 4 - 5hr trip. A couple weeks in DC traffic & you'd be getting divorce papers :D

Circumstances are great determiners in one's needs.

Toronto, with an average total commute time of 80 minutes, ranked dead last among 19 urban centres, the board found in its annual prosperity scorecard, which compares Toronto with metropolitan areas around the world in 34 categories to measure how the city is competing in the global economy.

Overall, Toronto finished fourth in the ranking, but the report highlights a discrepancy between the city's strong ability to attract labour and its mediocre economic performance.

"Our most glaring downfall is our embarrassing finish on commuting time," board president Carol Wilding said, noting Toronto lags behind the legendary Los Angeles by 24 minutes, earning a grade of D.

Building the city's public transit infrastructure is critical to improving productivity, Ms. Wilding said, but that will become more difficult in light of the province's "disappointing" move to delay key Transit City projects.

In last week's provincial budget, the McGuinty government announced plans to postpone $4-billion in Toronto transit infrastructure spending over the next five years, meaning some of the city's planned rapid transit lines could be delayed well beyond 2020.

"I don't think we can back down in terms of advocacy for that funding," Ms. Wilding said.

The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development estimates traffic congestion in Toronto costs the country more than $5-billion annually in lost productivity, while the Ministry of Transportation's bi-annual review of traffic congestion indicates average speeds on some of Toronto's busiest sections of roads are being recorded at 38 kilometres an hour.

About 70% of Torontonians drive to work, the Board of Trade found, highlighting what Mayor David Miller calls the province's "wrong-headed" decision to delay Transit City.

"There's a huge competitiveness problem with our lack of transit," Mr. Miller said.

Though Transit City is his legacy, the Mayor said he does not regret his decision not to seek a third term, noting "nobody can credibly run for mayor of this city ... without supporting these investments."

Despite Toronto's poor showing in the commuting time category, the city placed fourth overall in the board's 2010 scorecard -- the same ranking as last year. A total of 24 urban centres were included in the report, though data are not available for each city in every category.

Toronto ranked second only to Barcelona in labour attractiveness, but sat at 11th place in terms of overall economy; the discrepancy is a "perplexing riddle" that must be addressed, Ms. Wilding said.

"Toronto's high ranking masks the troublesome weaknesses that will undermine our ability to maintain our position in future editions of this report," she warned. "Toronto's poor economic performance is threatening the very liveability that we are all so proud of."

The city earned high marks in areas such as affordability, diversity and strength of education, yet performed poorly on GDP growth, a key driver of future prosperity.

The city also fell short on access to venture capital and is "leagues away" from top-ranked Hong Kong in productivity growth, Ms. Wilding said.

"In one domain we're a world leader, but in the other domain we lag behind our competitors," she said, noting unless we improve on the economic side, we risk falling behind on our ability to draw top talent.

"This discrepancy between labour attractiveness and our economic performance is not just an idle curiosity," Ms. Wilding said. "It is a major and pressing public-policy and private-sector challenge."
Photo: Morning traffic on the Don Valley Parkway (DVP) in Toronto. (Tyler Anderson/National Post)



Read more: http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/...lasts-city-s-commute-times.aspx#ixzz1Q8gzcZOj


Hey dingo EJS...read a little before jumping on comments.....ya we got TRAFFIC..duh
 

99Jet

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Toronto, with an average total commute time of 80 minutes, ranked dead last among 19 urban centres, the board found in its annual prosperity scorecard, which compares Toronto with metropolitan areas around the world in 34 categories to measure how the city is competing in the global economy.
Overall, Toronto finished fourth in the ranking, but the report highlights a discrepancy between the city's strong ability to attract labour and its mediocre economic performance.
"Our most glaring downfall is our embarrassing finish on commuting time," board president Carol Wilding said, noting Toronto lags behind the legendary Los Angeles by 24 minutes, earning a grade of D.
Yep. I get to sit in that crap every day and is why I made sure that the Passat I just ordered had the Fender audio package. :) Personally, I have no problems with a manual transmission in traffic and ordered DSG more to encourage my wife to drive the more economical car.
Had I lived near twisty mountain roads, it might have been a different story.
 
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