Crank seal replacement

This is a description of how to replace the crankshaft seal on an ALH engine.
The tools used are the "official" VW tools. The crankshaft holder is "3415", the seal puller is "3203" and the seal installer is "3265". The seal installer for the "new" style PTFE seal is "T10053", but it is not pictured here.

(I apologize for the fuzziness of some pictures. It's hard to tell if the picture is fuzzy until download to the PC long after the procedure was done. Plus the picture server resizes and aggravates the fuzzy appearance.)

This is the crankshaft holder. It is just over 27 inches long. It has two screws that screw into damper bolt holes on the crankshaft pulley.


Here's the business end of it.


Here it is attached to a car.


And to put it into scale with the car...


We had the luxury of having the car up on a lift. The job is a little more difficult if the car is only on stands.

The procedure:
Remove what you have to in order to get access to the crank pulley. (Serpentine belt, damper, lower belt shield). If you're doing a timing belt replacement, that is a good time to do this. If you don't have the luxury of a lift, do all of this before releasing tension on the timing belt or removing the camshaft pulley.

Attach the crankshaft holder as shown. Using a 12 point 19mm socket and breaker bar (at least 3/4 inch drive recommended), counter hold the crankshaft with the holder and loosen the crankshaft pulley bolt. It is on tight. Very tight, unless you're a weightlifter.

If you're doing this without the aid of a lift, I suggest finding TDC first, then turning the crankshaft about 45 degrees off of TDC (in either direction), attaching the holder, loosen the bolt but don't remove, then turn the engine back to TDC.

At this point you can lock the camshaft at TDC for cylinder #1, release tension on the belt, and remove the camshaft pulley (to be reinstalled later).

Once the tension is off of the belt, remove the crankshaft pulley bolt and pulley. You now have access to the seal.

When removing the seal it is important to not scratch the crankshaft. Any scratch where the seal is located will just cause the replacement to leak and it's expensive to replace a crankshaft.

The VW tool for removal of the seal looks like this.


The end of it (away from the end with the "box" shape) screws into the seal. You loosen the thumb screw and back out the center part of the tool (with the "box" shape) a few turns and retighten the thumb screw. Then screw the tool into the seal using a 1/2 inch ratchet in the "box". Once it doesn't go in any more, loosen the thumb screw and turn the center part in a tightening direction while holding the outer part of the tool. This will cause the center part to push against the crankshaft end while the outer part pulls the seal out of the flange.

Here it is on the car.



Once you have the old seal out, you have to put a new one in. Be careful when installing the new seal. Do not nick it on the end of the crankshaft, nor the corners of the D shape of the end of the crankshaft. It can be pushed into place using installer tool "3265".

The installer tool looks like this.



Insert the old crankshaft pulley bolt through the hole in the installer. Tightening it into the end of the crankshaft will push the installer evenly against the seal to install it into the flange. (Sorry, didn't take a picture.) Once the seal is seated, remove the bolt and installer tool.

Use a new bolt, reinstall the pulley and timing belt. Install the pulley bolt. If the car is up on stands, make it hand tight. Verify crankshaft is at TDC, and (re)install the timing belt (see the timing belt replacement procedure in the articles for all the details). If the car is on a lift you can proceed with tightening the crankshaft bolt before finishing the (re)installation of the belt.

If the car is up on stands, once you have the timing belt (re)installed, you can safely turn the engine off of TDC by about 45 degrees and reinstall the crank holder. With the crank holder installed for counterholding, tighten the crankshaft pulley bolt to 88 ft-lbs (120 Nm), then tighten another 90 degrees. This is very tight. It is a large, fine thread bolt so don't be surprised at the effort it takes.

Finally, reinstall other removed parts to complete the job.

One other thing, the approximate prices of the tools (subject to change without notice and varies with source and shipping):
Seal installer: $20
Crankshaft holder: $90 /images/graemlins/frown.gif
Seal remover: $145 /images/graemlins/eek.gif

Glen

When mine starts leaking I’ll give you a call. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[ QUOTE ]
and it's expensive to replace a crankshaft.


[/ QUOTE ]

aw, c'mon...couldn't cost more than $20-30 right /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Seal installer: $20
Crankshaft holder: $90
Seal remover: $145

[/ QUOTE ]

Attention Metalnerd /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Man, I'm glad I didn't try to dive into this on a recent belt change. A friend bought a new car (97 Jetta), a dealer inspection indicated a leaking CSS. Turned out to be the valve cover gasket. whew! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Thanks MOGo
-rob

The sad part is that it's all this expense and work for a $5 "old" style seal and $20 for PTFE style (can be used to replace "old" but not vice versa).

Metalnerd already has dimensions and thoughts concerning the crank holder.

Question is, how do you do this on a block that is not installed in the car, and without the counterholder tool? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Lots and lots of air? will a 1/2" drive electric impact do it? guess I'm about to find out...

guess I found out.

crank holder:




1/2" adaptor to 3/8"dr. 19mm 12pt socket on a cheaterbar, one guy standing on the engine, and another guy standing on the bar:



Later!
-rob

What about changing the crank seal on the other side of the motor?

Its part of the "seal carrier" and is bolted to the block by about 5-6 10mm bolts.
remove clutch, pressure plate and flywheel.
remove bolts holding carrier
slide the old seal off and replace it with a new one.

P/n 06a 103 171a for the cast aluminum one in the pic. the other one is plastic and I don't have a p/n.

Do you need special tools to replace that one?

I guess you'd need a 12mm 12pt. internal drive bit for the FW bolts.
and other than that, not really.


and BTW, the p/n for the plastic seal is 038 103 171B

Is there a page in the bentley that describes the r&r of these seals? I couldnt find it.

Wait, I found it. But the bentley isnt clear. Does the oil pan need to be removed to replace this seal????

Oh, and Impex only has parts with a "c" and "F" suffex listed.... hmm

oil pan does not need to be removed, only two of the oil pan bolts that screw into the bottom of the carrier. But these are also "right there" when you get to the seal.
don't know anything about the p/n's except that they are embossed on the parts themselves.

Ok...dragging up an old thread. Glen and gurus. Are you still using the old seals or the new one. I just went to the dealer to get some and all they had were the "new" ones. PN 038-103-085-E. And are you installing it the same way with the 3265 tool?

I've only ever used the older one. haven't had a come back. then again, havent done too many of these. talk about a PITA.

The seal extractor I bought on ebay a few months back doesn't work at all kind of a bummer, it just never really grabs the seal. for installation, I just tapa tapa tapa the new one in with a hammer and a block of wood. slow and even.

There is only one seal on the ETKA, and no superscede part number. Not sure what you are talking about.

Rob, are sure you are not "pushing" the tool in as you turn. I find that I have to as it will grab it. Keep turning until it stops or becomes hard to, then remove tool. Seal should come out.

Hammer is not a good idea. That plastic tool to install the seal is only $20. You can afford to get it.

The "new" seal has no spring, correct?

Rob, are sure you are not "pushing" the tool in as you turn. I find that I have to as it will grab it. Keep turning until it stops or becomes hard to, then remove tool. Seal should come out.

Click to expand...

Yep, just couldn't get 'er to grab. I inspected the threads and they're all kind of rolled over. the tool is mis-machined (hence, cheap [ebay])

I can get a new seal almost all the way seated with my thumbs.

hey i need to do this to my ALH motor and these tools are expensive! They cost more than my timing belt tool kit!

Does anyone know where I could rent these from ?

I don't know about renting the tools. I just did the seal on my own car. Used the Metalnerd crank yank holder.

Found my '01 was equipped with a seal without the spring. That's not what ETKA says should have been there. Must have been an early one too. Current "no spring" seal has a 'E' suffix. The extracted one had no suffix.

Im held up from putting my ALH back together and this is all I have left to do. The PO told me he had the TB done about 8 months before it snapped- Im guessing this seal is the culprit....

Well I got the old seal out- man using that remover tool sure made it easy....

I believe whoever changed the crank seal used the older style one.... :/

The old p/n is 054 115 147B

onlyn8v said:

hey i need to do this to my ALH motor and these tools are expensive! They cost more than my timing belt tool kit!

Does anyone know where I could rent these from ?

Click to expand...

I did the front seal on a 1.6 L VW TD once, and it looks the same. I removed the big bolt by removing the oil pan and wedging a block of wood against the block and the crankshaft, and used a breaker bar and a 19 MM 6 point socket. I got the seal out by removing the crank sprocket and then unbolted the seal carrier, pulled off the carrier and then replaced the seal in the carrier and installed the carrier with a new gasket between the carrier and the block. Be careful, the seal carrier is aluminum and the engine block steel. A couple of the oil pan bolts go into the aluminum seal carrier and I stripped these holes out, bacause the torque specs were not lower in the Bentley manual for these two.

In my case, Bentley said you could get the seal out and back in three ways after the crankshaft sprocket was removed:

1. With the special tools, as mentioned above.

2. By using a seal puller (a big hooked one) to remove the seal and using a big socket or pipe to tap a new seal in. (This takes skill to prevent ruining the crankshaft or seal carrier sealing surfaces)

3. Doing what I did, remove the seal carrier bolts and carrier with the seal and easily replace the seal in the carrier and bolt the carrier back onto the block.

This is on a 1.6 L IDI VW diesel, but the set-up looks the same.

--Nate

Well, I bought all the tools needed except the 3415 - I borrowed it. It came out very easy. In my mind a good buy if you plan on doing more seals in the future + I like to get new tools

Also, if you ever stop owning TDIs (or other VWs these tools are for) you can sell the tools on e-Bay for dang near to what you bought them for!

Just get the proper tools. Its a great investment and can save money in the long run and make life easier.

You also get to say "pi$$ off" to the dealer!

--Nate

Yep seal pullers are worth EVERY DIME!

Seal tools

jasonTDI said:

Yep seal pullers are worth EVERY DIME!

Click to expand...

So is Metalnerd's crank yank tool. Far better than the VW crank counterholders.

Metalnerd crank yank

I may have been using the tool incorrectly but I found that the cheat ($24) seal puller I bought off of ebay from some english dude did'nt work at all. back to yanking the carrier and pounding it out from the back (major pain in the ass)

You mean on an A3?

There are many seal pullers out there, I don't understand what the big deal is here. Hook types that you can smack with a hammer or tee type with a hook kinda thing and a long handle that I use very often on many, many seals. Get that puppy out and hit the crank with some 400 grit to clean up any old stuff still stuck there.

Then for installation, that seal sits down a bit, so on mine, I would take a 5/16 bolt with two nuts on it and screw the bolts onto the bolt. Then I would grind the end of the bolt smooth and run the end nut down so that the length of bolt sticking out is the same as the depth of the seal as installed. I would then screw the other nut down and lock them in place. This is what I would use to get the final depth of the seal, working around and around, keeping the bolt at a right angle. It's a simple seal, not magic.