Early signs of slipping clutch. What is recommended for stage 2 performance tuning?

Seems like the best clutch thread to bump.

I'm probably gonna "need" to replace my clutch in the next few months. In July 2016 I installed a Malone stage 3 tune, and it started slipping the stock 170k mile clutch pretty badly. Shortly thereafter I put in a Sachs VR6 clutch (K7003802) with a Sachs G60 flywheel. It still slipped a bit in the low RPM range of 3rd gear, but was driveable. Now I've got .215s and Burpod's best tune, and it's really getting obviously slippy if I don't baby it. For what it's worth, I'm now at 324k miles.

I remember talking to Frank06 on the phone when I was ordering my injectors, and he really recommended against the VR6 clutch. Seemed like it really wasn't a good match for the TDI, and sadly I don't recall many of the specifics of that conversation. But going from the comments in this thread it's probably going to top out around 280-300 ft/lbs.

Southbend is clearly good stuff, but it's just not in my price range. About a year ago I partially rebuilt a 2.8 ATQ for a B5 and used a Spec stage 1 clutch in the installation. So far it's held up great and drives really nice. I'm thinking about using their stage 4 clutch which is rated at 429 ft/lb. (Links 1, 2 )

Has anyone else had experience with these?

After researching it some more I think I'm gonna give KY Clutch my business. I've known about them for a while but haven't looked into how many people are using them for TDI cars. The best part about it is they're only about 40 minutes from where I work. I called up told the guy I was looking to hold about 450-500 foot pounds. He quoted me $375 and a no-cost flywheel resurface.

thechoochlyman said:

After researching it some more I think I'm gonna give KY Clutch my business. I've known about them for a while but haven't looked into how many people are using them for TDI cars. The best part about it is they're only about 40 minutes from where I work. I called up told the guy I was looking to hold about 450-500 foot pounds. He quoted me $375 and a no-cost flywheel resurface.

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Id be interested to know how that works out. Sbc and others are fairly spendy. Haven't had any issues with them but.... Money is always tight. Redoing a clutch and spending more again sucks too lol

burpod said:

Id be interested to know how that works out. Sbc and others are fairly spendy. Haven't had any issues with them but.... Money is always tight. Redoing a clutch and spending more again sucks too lol

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Yeah, for real. I pretty good about it though. There were a few negative reviews on some forums, but all the Google reviews are phenomenal.

That's odd the VR setup slips. I have almost an identical setup,.216s and Malone stage 2/3 etc. Did some pulls last night with a Malone stage 1 ALH and we were pretty much door to door from 40-130. No slipping at all. I don't think the stage 2 tune even comes close to 250ft lbs lol. With the stage 3 tune I'm about the same as my friends Mk2 TD with Giles super pump and GTD injectors. Should be just around 250 ft lbs.

Everything else aside, I would advise against resurfacing a flywheel especially on a diesel. I did that initially when I first put my B4 together years ago but man did it chatter. You could hear it inside the house if I was idling outside. When I switched to the VR setup I went with a Darkside Silent FW which made a world of difference. It really is actually silent lol. Going through drive throughs is night and day

Chungus said:

Everything else aside, I would advise against resurfacing a flywheel especially on a diesel. I did that initially when I first put my B4 together years ago but man did it chatter.

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Do you really think it's the resurfaced flywheel that did it? It's just cleaning up the surface that mates to the clutch plate, typically any chatter you hear is coming from the springs.

thechoochlyman said:

Do you really think it's the resurfaced flywheel that did it? It's just cleaning up the surface that mates to the clutch plate, typically any chatter you hear is coming from the springs.

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I have an ALH with the same VR clutch but with a stock smf. The noise difference is very obvious between clutch in and clutch out. On my B4 it's indiscernible

Unless someone really screwed the pooch resurfacing the flywheel, it was not the cause of your chatter.

thechoochlyman said:

After researching it some more I think I'm gonna give KY Clutch my business. I've known about them for a while but haven't looked into how many people are using them for TDI cars. The best part about it is they're only about 40 minutes from where I work. I called up told the guy I was looking to hold about 450-500 foot pounds. He quoted me $375 and a no-cost flywheel resurface.

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Have you pulled the trigger yet? Any feedback about how the pedal feels, performance?

dieseldonato said:

Have you pulled the trigger yet? Any feedback about how the pedal feels, performance?

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Not yet, probably gonna be another couple weeks. But I'll be sure to post plenty of photos and info when it happens!

thechoochlyman said:

Not yet, probably gonna be another couple weeks. But I'll be sure to post plenty of photos and info when it happens!

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Sweet, thanks.. I find myself in the market for a clutch, an economical alternative to sb would be great.

Chungus said:

That's odd the VR setup slips. I have almost an identical setup,.216s and Malone stage 2/3 etc. Did some pulls last night with a Malone stage 1 ALH and we were pretty much door to door from 40-130. No slipping at all. I don't think the stage 2 tune even comes close to 250ft lbs lol. With the stage 3 tune I'm about the same as my friends Mk2 TD with Giles super pump and GTD injectors. Should be just around 250 ft lbs.

Everything else aside, I would advise against resurfacing a flywheel especially on a diesel. I did that initially when I first put my B4 together years ago but man did it chatter. You could hear it inside the house if I was idling outside. When I switched to the VR setup I went with a Darkside Silent FW which made a world of difference. It really is actually silent lol. Going through drive throughs is night and day

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Something must me up with your tune if a stage one is able to pull with you. Was it stock otherwise?

Mongler98 said:

i dont get why you would want to just replace the clutch with the same one when the price for a upgrade is next to nothing compared to the work to do so.

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When I changed mine at 300K (US) it was starting to slip.
I had no tune or plans for one.
Most of my driving was back & forth to work.
Now that I'm retired it's around here to stores & such.
I also go to my seasonal house near Watkins Glen which is about 400 miles (US)
Don't need a race car to do the trip.
You should chose your clutch by how you drive it, what your updates are or will be.
Others may post their recommendations.

dieseldonato said:

Unless someone really screwed the pooch resurfacing the flywheel, it was not the cause of your chatter.

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I mean the empirical evidence is there: two cars with the same clutch, different fw. One chatters, the other doesn't. Maybe Darkside balances the flywheel to the clutch? The package was already opened prior to me receiving it

CanadianALH said:

Something must me up with your tune if a stage one is able to pull with you. Was it stock otherwise?

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It has a 3" exhaust but otherwise stock. The valves were walnut blasted which seems to have made the most difference in power and fe amongst all the stage 1 ALHs I've driven. I think the biggest factor in that pull is probably weight

Chungus said:

I mean the empirical evidence is there: two cars with the same clutch, different fw. One chatters, the other doesn't. Maybe Darkside balances the flywheel to the clutch? The package was already opened prior to me receiving it

It has a 3" exhaust but otherwise stock. The valves were walnut blasted which seems to have made the most difference in power and fe amongst all the stage 1 ALHs I've driven. I think the biggest factor in that pull is probably weight

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We resurface hundreds of flywheels a month at the machine shop, never once heard of one chattering from it being resurfaced.

dieseldonato said:

We resurface hundreds of flywheels a month at the machine shop, never once heard of one chattering from it being resurfaced.

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yah. chatter will almost certainly always be from pressure plate springs-related or throw-out bearing.

Chungus said:

I mean the empirical evidence is there: two cars with the same clutch, different fw. One chatters, the other doesn't. Maybe Darkside balances the flywheel to the clutch? The package was already opened prior to me receiving it

It has a 3" exhaust but otherwise stock. The valves were walnut blasted which seems to have made the most difference in power and fe amongst all the stage 1 ALHs I've driven. I think the biggest factor in that pull is probably weight

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it's very hard to truly compare any "stage1" between cars - you would need to make sure a lot of conditions are all exactly the same which would take a good bit of time to go over well enough to have confidence in the results. pump/nozzle/turbo and the tune would have to be the exact same of course, ambient air temps, altitude, injector balance checked. pump/nozzle health could vary. compression differences, any little camshaft wear?differences in exhaust. the "rod length" or n75 could be a little off. "IQ" might be a little different. any sticky vanes or vac leaks? any boost leaks? i would make a bet that there are a large number of people who think they have no boost leaks, but if they actually pressure tested the pipes, they would find at least one.... so there are a huge number of things which can all add up

burpod said:

it's very hard to truly compare any "stage1" between cars - you would need to make sure a lot of conditions are all exactly the same which would take a good bit of time to go over well enough to have confidence in the results. pump/nozzle/turbo and the tune would have to be the exact same of course, ambient air temps, altitude, injector balance checked. pump/nozzle health could vary. compression differences, any little camshaft wear?differences in exhaust. the "rod length" or n75 could be a little off. "IQ" might be a little different. any sticky vanes or vac leaks? any boost leaks? i would make a bet that there are a large number of people who think they have no boost leaks, but if they actually pressure tested the pipes, they would find at least one.... so there are a huge number of things which can all add up

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I was thinking of pressure testing my pipes, how would I do that? Ever since a other guy mentioned that I was thinking about it.

Chungus said:

I mean the empirical evidence is there: two cars with the same clutch, different fw. One chatters, the other doesn't. Maybe Darkside balances the flywheel to the clutch? The package was already opened prior to me receiving it

It has a 3" exhaust but otherwise stock. The valves were walnut blasted which seems to have made the most difference in power and fe amongst all the stage 1 ALHs I've driven. I think the biggest factor in that pull is probably weight

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Where and how would one get their valves walnut blasted?

CanadianALH said:

I was thinking of pressure testing my pipes, how would I do that? Ever since a other guy mentioned that I was thinking about it.

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Can diy it yourself. Get a plumbing cap or something and put a Schrader valve in it. Stick it on your intake pipe and pressurize. Lots of tutorials online

CanadianALH said:

Where and how would one get their valves walnut blasted?

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We had the motor out when we did it, I wouldn't recommend it in the car. There's not much room between the firewall to fit the blasting wand and it'd be hard to see the condition of the valves. We just used a generic parts store blasting wand and walnut media. Make sure you close the valves of whatever cylinder you're cleaning so you don't walnut-lock the motor like we did lol

Chungus said:

Can diy it yourself. Get a plumbing cap or something and put a Schrader valve in it. Stick it on your intake pipe and pressurize. Lots of tutorials online
We had the motor out when we did it, I wouldn't recommend it in the car. There's not much room between the firewall to fit the blasting wand and it'd be hard to see the condition of the valves. We just used a generic parts store blasting wand and walnut media. Make sure you close the valves of whatever cylinder you're cleaning so you don't walnut-lock the motor like we did lol

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Thank you. That’s something to do if I ever have the motor out.

CanadianALH said:

Thank you. That’s something to do if I ever have the motor out.

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And I’ll be doing a pressure test this weekend as well. Found one for sale I’ll just make one using their idea lol. Thank you for the help. Hopefully it’s going to be a weekend of long needed maintenance. Intercooler and EGR valve clean as well. Along with hopefully a muffler delete.

CanadianALH said:

And I’ll be doing a pressure test this weekend as well. Found one for sale I’ll just make one using their idea lol. Thank you for the help. Hopefully it’s going to be a weekend of long needed maintenance. Intercooler and EGR valve clean as well. Along with hopefully a muffler delete.

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Should I bother to clean the EGR valve? It is dynamic with my tune but I kept the valve it's self. Do after I clean it do I need to do something with ross tech? I saw someone do that on youtube.

I just used a bunch of pvc caps/plugs i had laying around to do mine. Doesn't really need to be anything fancy. Not putting much pressure on it.

dieseldonato said:

I just used a bunch of pvc caps/plugs i had laying around to do mine. Doesn't really need to be anything fancy. Not putting much pressure on it.

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I’m going to find a cap and toss a valve stem in it. It’s not much pressure at all.

@thechoochlyman, did you ever get your new clutch in?

JordanTr said:

@thechoochlyman, did you ever get your new clutch in?

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Nope, still haven't even bought it. Other things came up and it's once again on the back burner.