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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old October 15th, 2019, 19:48   #1
JettaCR140
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Default Any high power 02q trans TDIs

I have a 2009 cbea tdi with the 02q trans (steel synchros) with a gtb2260vk and bunch of other goodies. My DKM twin disc + SMF is starting to slip. Wondering if I should switch over to the darkside DMF kit or see if its possible to swap in a newer (I think 2015+) 02q as Ive heard they have brass synchros. Let me know if anyone knows as the car will likely be getting a cp3 and head studs in the next year. Thanks!
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Old October 16th, 2019, 08:40   #2
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The early 02Q in your car might actually have brass synchros unless you've been in there to see for yourself. If they're steel and they've lasted with an SMF setup, consider yourself very lucky. The later 02Q boxes have steel and will not hold up with a SMF for very long.

Do you have any gear clatter in low speeds, or synchro rattle at idle?
That's disappointing to hear the DKM twin disc is slipping, I thought they were rated pretty high for torque.
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Old October 16th, 2019, 17:06   #3
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Im almost certain they're steel as it was VIN checked by DarksideDevelopments and I did tons of research myself last year. I love the clutch and am also surprised it's slipping but the car does make tons of torque.

It has crazy chatter at idle (I hold the clutch in at a stop to avoid it) and also some at idle in gear, regret not just going DMF the first time but thankfully haven't broke any synchros.
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Old October 16th, 2019, 18:25   #4
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Sure it’s not your throw out bearing making noise?
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Old October 16th, 2019, 20:23   #5
JettaCR140
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It could be the TOB but I think its more likely flywheel chatter. Main issue is the fact that its slipping though, I can live with chatter if it'd hold power its just annoying
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Old October 16th, 2019, 23:21   #6
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It's gear rattle from the harmonics of the 4 banger tdi. The DMF is there to absorb most of the harmonics. A straight six doesn't produce nearly as much. My five cylinder golf makes quite a bit of gear rattle in neutral too. I'd look into the Sachs SRE dmf kit from darkside.

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Old October 17th, 2019, 06:15   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JettaCR140 View Post
Im almost certain they're steel as it was VIN checked by DarksideDevelopments and I did tons of research myself last year. I love the clutch and am also surprised it's slipping but the car does make tons of torque.

It has crazy chatter at idle (I hold the clutch in at a stop to avoid it) and also some at idle in gear, regret not just going DMF the first time but thankfully haven't broke any synchros.
A DMF will certainly get rid of the noise, and a fluidampr would get rid of most of it if you stayed with a SMF. The Sachs SRE with organic disc I have is very pleasant to drive. Though, at your power level the sintered disc might be the way to go just for some added headroom. SouthBend has a setup for DMF use as well.
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Old October 17th, 2019, 10:06   #8
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So you mean that if I put a 10kg SMF with my 02Q from 2012 it wont hold?


My 02M with 7KG SMF still goes strong after 12 years. Does 02M have brass syncros or why does it last?
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Old October 17th, 2019, 17:29   #9
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Yes the 02m has the brass synchros and works great with a SMF, the 02q typically does not, although I was told the newer 02q (like 2017+ don't quote me on that) switched back to brass. Fluidamper will get rid of noise but has very limited info stating that it saves the synchros, I spoke to multiple people running SMF + fluidamper and still destroyed them.
I spoke with darkside today and it sounds like the Sachs SRE + sintered disc (for the cr170) will fit my car (its a US cr140) and is rated at 599 ft/lbs which is a little more than the DKM one I have now is rated at.
Southbound does makes a DMF kit but its over $2000 so I'm not interested in that.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 09:47   #10
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You may be able to find the Southbend kit cheaper than that. I don't know why that thing costs what it does, but when I called them they confirmed it's just a Sachs DMF...nothing magical there. I believe IdParts might have the PP and Disc for a DMF setup.

Interesting if VW switched back to brass in the latest 6spds. May need to do some investigating on that one. You CAN swap an 02M 1-4 output shaft into the 02Q, but that's likely to cost a good bit when you could just find a full 02M for similar price.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 14:14   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JettaCR140 View Post
My DKM twin disc + SMF is starting to slip.
What is the car doing during this "slip"

1) RPM increasing a lot without moving the car faster... up 500-1000 rpm then back down

2) shakes the car but RPM still matches road speed

I'm asking because lately a lot of guys are saying "slipping clutch" when they really have shudder. They aren't the same thing.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 20:41   #12
JettaCR140
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Quote:
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What is the car doing during this "slip"

1) RPM increasing a lot without moving the car faster... up 500-1000 rpm then back down

2) shakes the car but RPM still matches road speed

I'm asking because lately a lot of guys are saying "slipping clutch" when they really have shudder. They aren't the same thing.

Good point, but its definitely slipping. It's inconsistent but if I get on it every once in a while RPMs will shoot up with inappropriate (no) speedometer acceleration and then will grab a moment later after I let off throttle, its quite obvious if you've been cars with slipping clutches before.
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Old October 30th, 2019, 05:49   #13
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Very interested to see if we can swap to the newer transmission and if it has brass syncros. I tried finding out what the scope of clutch/tran options were available for our cars on here with no useful response, glad you're having better luck.
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Old October 30th, 2019, 06:40   #14
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Very interested to see if we can swap to the newer transmission and if it has brass syncros. I tried finding out what the scope of clutch/tran options were available for our cars on here with no useful response, glad you're having better luck.
C'mon now, you have two different threads here and here with plenty of useful info. I just think you wanted an answer that doesn't exist unfortunately. If you want to run an SMF, you need to swap to an 02M gearbox or put the 1st through 4th gear output shaft from one into an 02Q. There is no high performance DMF out there, and honestly once you start making near 400lb-ft of torque you don't want it below 2500rpm because something else is likely to break at that point. DMF shudder only shows itself below that, so a bigger turbo is going to likely solve that for you anyway.
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Old October 30th, 2019, 10:36   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adjat84th View Post
C'mon now, you have two different threads here and here with plenty of useful info. I just think you wanted an answer that doesn't exist unfortunately. If you want to run an SMF, you need to swap to an 02M gearbox or put the 1st through 4th gear output shaft from one into an 02Q. There is no high performance DMF out there, and honestly once you start making near 400lb-ft of torque you don't want it below 2500rpm because something else is likely to break at that point. DMF shudder only shows itself below that, so a bigger turbo is going to likely solve that for you anyway.
This is funny


Are you guys sure that there is a real issue with this syncros and SMF??


I have shipped my 02Q gearbox to Darkside England and they tell me they never had any issues with this combination. Im spending quite much money here and its not fun if it goes to pieces after a short time.


Theo
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