New Passat TDI confirmed for U.S.

jasonTDI · Jan 16, 2011

Stealth TDI said:
Hello,

The kid across the street has a new Cobalt. She starts the car as she's walking out the door. Not sure if she starts and idles to warm up the car. But I'll bet she does. We're expecting ice tonight. So I have no doubt that car will be idling until the windows are clear.

Scott

Who cares? You guys are blowing this WAY out of proportion.

ALL cars in the winter should be idled for at least a minute. It's just good practice to make sure the fluids are circulating. I'm not talking about 10 min here but come on....this has been rehashed over and over and over....

jasonTDI · Jan 16, 2011

IndigoBlueWagon said:
Why so much hate for hydraulic steering?

Other than being in the way during a clutch change it's not an issue. PS systems are the LEAST problematic system on a VW. The electric systems are FAR more expensive to fix and they do fail. Not often but they do.

jasonTDI · Jan 16, 2011

But the XC70 outsold it 6 to 1.

kooyajerms said:
you missed the dot there Peter.

Let's hope they see the TDI JSW sales and "risk" selling the TDI in the B7V (is that right?)

Volvo got rid of their V70, but then again, we never got it in diesel =(

leicaman · Jan 16, 2011

jasonTDI said:
Other than being in the way during a clutch change it's not an issue. PS systems are the LEAST problematic system on a VW. The electric systems are FAR more expensive to fix and they do fail. Not often but they do.

I will take a manual parking brake any day over anything electronic. Anyday. Electric steering has not been out long enough IMHO for all bugs to be addressed.

Remember when rack and pinion steering was introduced in American cars? I do. My 1984 Chrysler Laser required its rack to be replaced not once but three times. I'd rather have something that is worked out and relatively bug free.

Vw was wise to put a manual parking brake on the new Passat. I personally approve.

BeetleGo · Jan 16, 2011

Me too. I drove my brother's Passat this weekend and while I was trying to figure out how to unbrake the car (Put footbrake in) my brother commented that this is one thing that he and his wife detest. When we saw that the new Amerisatt has a manual emergency brake, and a TDI engine, AND A 6-speed, they were all over it. They already have the 6-speed, but the TDI nailed it. They really wanted their current '05 Passat in a TDI, but there wasn't one. Now that there is a TDI too, they're just waiting to get one. The TDI club members will meet them when they buy this car! They really liked the lines on it, and I agree. VW. Bravo.

dan30thz28 · Jan 16, 2011

Hey,
Just emailed VWoA asking them if they are going to have a wagon model available with the TDI engine, and a manual transmission. I'll post here if anything interesting comes about with it.

Oberkanone · Jan 16, 2011

Wal-Martization of VW

Too bad the interior materials are visibly downgraded (the analog clock pressed into the grille of the upper dashboard vents looks like VW grabbed them from bins at Dollar Tree) and the sparkling 2-liter turbo 4-cylinder is nowhere to be seen.
Still, VW planners may have accurately pinpointed the Wal-Mart influence that prevails over many Americans' purchase decisions. But in the end, VW's gonna discover they would have been better off going Target. Just ask GM.

Above is excerpt from Bill Visnic commentary on the 2011 NAIAS.

My personal take on the Passat is that it is sized right and styled right to be competitive, the interior is disappointing though will be acceptable to the masses of midsize buyers. Even more disappointing than the interior (since it is attractive and a downgrade to VW fans is likely still and upgrade to VW newbies) is the gasoline engines being offered. Unimpressive.
TDI version I expect will be the real winner here and likely to create new ambassadors of diesel as well as cause competition to at least consider diesel for future offerings.

frugality · Jan 16, 2011

leicaman said:
I will take a manual parking brake any day over anything electronic. Anyday. Electric steering has not been out long enough IMHO for all bugs to be addressed.
...
Vw was wise to put a manual parking brake on the new Passat. I personally approve.

I dunno. Lots of people end up with rusty-stuck parking brake cables. Maybe cables are a technology that should pass into oblivion. We often boast about our 'drive-by-wire' throttle, without much thought.

The thing is....the electronics are there already for the traction control system. When the car detects a wheel slip (with the ABS sensors), the brake engages on that wheel to slow it back down. I don't know if VW is using the front brakes as parking brakes, or if they've added a similar feature to the rear brakes to act as parking brakes. But I like the technology and would choose to ditch the parking brake cable, myself.

abctdi · Jan 16, 2011

leicaman said:
Remember when rack and pinion steering was introduced in American cars? I do. My 1984 Chrysler Laser required its rack to be replaced not once but three times. I'd rather have something that is worked out and relatively bug free.

An 80s Chrysler with quality problems? Shirley you jest

Ralphy · Jan 16, 2011

frugality said:
I dunno. Lots of people end up with rusty-stuck parking brake cables. Maybe cables are a technology that should pass into oblivion. We often boast about our 'drive-by-wire' throttle, without much thought.

The thing is....the electronics are there already for the traction control system. When the car detects a wheel slip (with the ABS sensors), the brake engages on that wheel to slow it back down. I don't know if VW is using the front brakes as parking brakes, or if they've added a similar feature to the rear brakes to act as parking brakes. But I like the technology and would choose to ditch the parking brake cable, myself.

I dislike the electric parking brake of my CC alot. In fact, they were conceived for the purpose of the auto-hold feature. It also automatically disengages when you release the clutch in gear, but if you`re in a hurry it will annoy you because there is a small delay.

The worse is the emergency brake function that is not there anymore. Impossible to partially engage the parking brake. I saved my front end a couple of times by manually engaging my e-brake in slippery winter condition with my previous cars; with electric brake, forget it...

leicaman · Jan 16, 2011

frugality said:
I dunno. Lots of people end up with rusty-stuck parking brake cables. Maybe cables are a technology that should pass into oblivion. We often boast about our 'drive-by-wire' throttle, without much thought.

The thing is....the electronics are there already for the traction control system. When the car detects a wheel slip (with the ABS sensors), the brake engages on that wheel to slow it back down. I don't know if VW is using the front brakes as parking brakes, or if they've added a similar feature to the rear brakes to act as parking brakes. But I like the technology and would choose to ditch the parking brake cable, myself.

You know it is dirt simple to prevent the problem. 1. Use the parking brake daily. 2. have it inspected regularly for signs of problems. A simpler than the electronic stuff.

Loop Cross · Jan 16, 2011

Ralphy said:
I dislike the electric parking brake of my CC alot. In fact, they were conceived for the purpose of the auto-hold feature. It also automatically disengages when you release the clutch in gear, but if you`re in a hurry it will annoy you because there is a small delay.

The worse is the emergency brake function that is not there anymore. Impossible to partially engage the parking brake. I saved my front end a couple of times by manually engaging my e-brake in slippery winter condition with my previous cars; with electric brake, forget it...

I completely agree. Never underestimate the usefulness of the e-brake to keep the front wheels turning(and steering) while braking the rear only. My wife has a B6 Passat with the electric e-brake and I simply don't trust it.

PlaneCrazy · Jan 16, 2011

jasonTDI said:
Other than being in the way during a clutch change it's not an issue. PS systems are the LEAST problematic system on a VW. The electric systems are FAR more expensive to fix and they do fail. Not often but they do.

The (hydraulic) steering rack on our B5.5 TDI failed at about 200k km. It was a pretty expensive repair, over $1k

PlaneCrazy · Jan 16, 2011

Admittedly the electric parking brake in our B6 is also the feature I dislike the most about the car, which is otherwise wonderful.

kooyajerms · Jan 16, 2011

jasonTDI said:
But the XC70 outsold it 6 to 1.

WOW

Well I guess it makes sense to keep the XC70 instead. That's like seeing more Audi Allroads than regular ol A4 wagons, and I do love me some Audi Allroads.

atc98002 · Jan 16, 2011

abctdi said:
An 80s Chrysler with quality problems? Shirley you jest

He is serious, and don't call him Shirley!

Sorry, couldn't resist

As far as electric vs hydro power steering, I understand the reaching for any fuel savings available. If that means going electric, so be it. However, for the parking brake, I think I'm in the manual lever camp. There have been numerous times I've use the PB in motion during limited traction situations. Can't do that with the electronic brake.

I have shown my wife the pictures showing the new Passat in red and blue, and I don't think I'll have any issues with her. All she asked was "Can you get it with a diesel?"

DPM · Jan 17, 2011

drove a Tiguan with electric handbrake. Hideous all-or-nothing device. I wouldn't expect the system to be great long-term either- an extra electric motor in each brake mech...

I like Subaru's current take on hill-hold. Normal handbrake *plus*the auto-hold built into the ABS logic.

wolfskin · Jan 17, 2011

Are you guys serious about using the PB as an "emergency break"? And in slippery conditions, no less?

For one thing: has there been any car sold in the US in the past 20 years without ABS?
For another: if it comes to slip, you should prefer to skid the front wheels over the rear ones every time.
Front wheel skid means understeer, which
1) corrects itself as soon as you find some traction
2) tends to correct itself as you take your foot off the accelerator
3) tends to result in frontal colisions if it comes to that

Rear wheel skid leads to oversteer, which
1) gets accentuated by any grip the front catches (and the front will find grip first, if any)
2) gets accentuated if you take your foot off the gas in a front wheel drive car
3) tend to result in lateral collisions which are the worst kind

The fact is you should NEVER engage the PB however little while in motion, and certainly not on slippery surfaces. Two exception: if you actually want to induce oversteer or if your hidraulic brake system has completely failed.

LRTDI · Jan 17, 2011

TC would take over from the Ebrake in low traction scenarios.

PlaneCrazy · Jan 17, 2011

wolfskin said:
Are you guys serious about using the PB as an "emergency break"? And in slippery conditions, no less?

For one thing: has there been any car sold in the US in the past 20 years without ABS?
For another: if it comes to slip, you should prefer to skid the front wheels over the rear ones every time.
Front wheel skid means understeer, which
1) corrects itself as soon as you find some traction
2) tends to correct itself as you take your foot off the accelerator
3) tends to result in frontal colisions if it comes to that

Rear wheel skid leads to oversteer, which
1) gets accentuated by any grip the front catches (and the front will find grip first, if any)
2) gets accentuated if you take your foot off the gas in a front wheel drive car
3) tend to result in lateral collisions which are the worst kind

The fact is you should NEVER engage the PB however little while in motion, and certainly not on slippery surfaces. Two exception: if you actually want to induce oversteer or if your hidraulic brake system has completely failed.

On top of that all new VWs come with electronic stability control. I've "tested" mine in vacant parking lots and on a no-traffic, snowy dirt road. Nobody needs to use the hand brake to "steer" on slippery roads any longer. The guy who wrote the algorithm figured it all out for you and put it into a system that can react much more quickly than any human can!

Trust me it works unless you're in WAYYYY over your head, and if you are that deep in doo-doo, steering with the handbrake isn't going to be of much help either.

Stealth TDI · Jan 17, 2011

wolfskin said:
For one thing: has there been any car sold in the US in the past 20 years without ABS?

My '98 Jetta TDI does not have ABS.

bhtooefr · Jan 17, 2011

Pretty sure the base model Korean cars don't have it, even available. (It'll be mandatory soon, with ESP, though.)

German_1er_diesel · Jan 17, 2011

It's very hard to believe a safety obsessed market like North America still has ABS-less cars on offer. In Europe stability control arrived with the Mk4 cars in the late 90s and became mandatory really quickly. ABS ubiquity was even earlier. You can't buy most Korean cars in Europe without stability control.

bhtooefr · Jan 17, 2011

The difference between the European and US markets is this:

In Europe, you guys try to avoid the accident in the first place. Hence lightweight, nimble cars with stability control and good ABS and all.

In the US, we assume the accident is inevitable, and try to make it survivable. Hence big heavy cars with crappy ABS and rear drums.

German_1er_diesel · Jan 17, 2011

Yea that seems to be the mindset difference.
The Impala rental I had recently actually felt like an accident was inevitable.

wolfskin · Jan 17, 2011

PlaneCrazy said:
On top of that all new VWs come with electronic stability control. I've "tested" mine in vacant parking lots and on a no-traffic, snowy dirt road.

I wasn't even going to mention ESP, because you will never be able to do anything like this system does, no matter what (it works by being able to break wheels individually, inducing torque around a vertical axle, as needed).
It does indeed work, and I'll never buy a car without it after experiencing the level of added safety it brings (I still had to buy it as an option, payed 500 Euro and don't regret a cent of it).

Bottom line, the "hand break" is a PARKING BREAK, period. It's designed to keep the car stationary while parked, and nothing more. If now there's a cheaper, more reliable way to build it than the old cable system, and which is incidentally also more comfy to use, that's a good thing in my book.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jan 17, 2011

I'm pretty sure all American cars have ABS now. And ESP is mandated, but only starting a few years ago.

TDIMeister · Jan 17, 2011

wolfskin said:
Bottom line, the "hand break" is a PARKING BREAK, period. It's designed to keep the car stationary while parked, and nothing more.

... unless your name is Ken Block.

abctdi · Jan 17, 2011

TDIMeister said:
... unless your name is Ken Block.

Those sure are some Hot Wheels...

bhtooefr · Jan 17, 2011

wolfskin said:
Bottom line, the "hand break" is a PARKING BREAK, period. It's designed to keep the car stationary while parked, and nothing more.

Except it is more than just a parking brake.

It's also useful for when the hydraulic braking system fails. And, you can modulate a hand brake, you can't modulate the PQ46 electric parking brake. Oh, and what if you have an electrical system failure? Even if you're OK with locking the rear brakes, you can't set the PQ46 parking brake if there is a major (think total loss of power) electrical system failure. Admittedly, a dual failure of both the service brake system and the electrical system is unlikely, but...

IndigoBlueWagon said:
I'm pretty sure all American cars have ABS now. And ESP is mandated, but only starting a few years ago.

2011 Aveo, ABS not available on LS, optional on 1LT and 2LT
2011 Rio, ABS not available on Base, optional on LX and SX
2011 Accent, ABS not available on GL, optional on GS and GLS, standard on SE

And ESP won't be mandated until 2012.

New Passat TDI confirmed for U.S.

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number

Top Post Dawg

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

grocery getter

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Pre-Forum Veteran Member

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor

Veteran Member

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large

Top Post Dawg

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor