All new 2015 Passat (Euro)

Nuttendiesel

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2013 Passat SEL with Malone 1.5 tune, 2014 535d, 2008 F250 6.4
They were extra tight on security at the plant when I went to the GTI/Golf launch class this spring. Instructor told us they were getting ready for releasing an updated Passat, and hinted that it looked like the CC(or was it that they would look alike?).

Qurious if we will get the MQB Passat this time or just a facelift of the current chassis?

Jason

This article explains the progression to the MQB platform for the NMS Passat if they are correct?
http://www.motorwayamerica.com/news/search-new-us-passat
 

gcodori

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thanks VW!

I currently drive a 2001 NB TDI and have passed 1/4 million miles. Extremely happy with VW...UNTIL NOW.

I was hoping to step up to a new passat in the near future. I discovered that VW was switching to the new platform and new engines across the board.

I waited with baited breath for the new passat. And low and behold, the US once again gets the worst selection of choices. No wagon. Old platform. Cheap boring design outside and inside. More promises of wagon concepts and talk about better SUV choices. AAAAAND then nuthin'.

I guess North America isn't that important to VW's business. You know the economy is doing better when a company can give the middle finger to an entire market. Chick-fil-a felt the same way about 1/4 of the worlds population (but that's a discussion for elsewhere).

So after some research I'll most likely pick up a used E320 CDI with the inline 6 diesel. It's the last model with the inline (easy to work on, no DPF or DEF) diesel. It makes 370 ft/pounds torque with only one turbo (compared to a 10 year newer engine design that needs two).

It sickens me to know that VW can build the euro passat here in america. They could if they wanted to - it's probably as easy as flipping a switch (all cars are robot built today). Yes I know it's more involved than that but I'm ranting here...

VW desired to be the biggest auto maker. Sales here are dropping and this new passat is why. They lost their design edge, they lost the enthusiast market, and never improved the perception of reliability. If they really wanted to succeed they would bring this euro passat here even if it meant taking a loss. Bringing an exciting upscale design does wonders for brand perception - just ask KIA and Hyundai.

Kia has been chasing VW in order to be the "New VW". They hired up the VW designers. They moved upscale and increased enthusiast motoring (v8's and sporty models). And VW has decided to go bottom of the barrel in the US, the market Kia moved away from. OH SWEET IRONY.
 

VeeDubTDI

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It sickens me to know that VW can build the euro passat here in america. They could if they wanted to - it's probably as easy as flipping a switch (all cars are robot built today). Yes I know it's more involved than that but I'm ranting here...
They can build the Euro Passat here in America? What are you talking about? Ranting or not, that isn't an accurate statement and it isn't "as easy as flipping a switch."

If they really wanted to succeed they would bring this euro passat here even if it meant taking a loss. Bringing an exciting upscale design does wonders for brand perception - just ask
Taking a loss is a new measure of success? :eek:

You have interesting business philosophies.
 

gcodori

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They can build the Euro Passat here in America? What are you talking about? Ranting or not, that isn't an accurate statement and it isn't "as easy as flipping a switch."

Taking a loss is a new measure of success? :eek:

You have interesting business philosophies.
Per the article posted directly above (post #31) that Tennessee plant CAN make the new platform with minimal tooling changes.

Just about every auto maker has or had a product they sold at a loss. Volt anyone? The prius was sold as a loss until this version. It helps when there is a need to change perception. They need to improve reliably and their reliably perception. That means the exact opposite of going with cheaper materials.



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Steve-o

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Kia has been chasing VW in order to be the "New VW". They hired up the VW designers. They moved upscale and increased enthusiast motoring (v8's and sporty models). And VW has decided to go bottom of the barrel in the US, the market Kia moved away from. OH SWEET IRONY.
As a Kia owner (DW's Kia Soul), I could not argue with a straight face that Kia is becoming the "new VW". Maybe Mazda; not Kia. There's a model or two with some appeal to enthusiasts. But they're not at the bottom (Soul, Optima) where most buyers are. Kia (and Hyundai) rarely are the brands introducing new tech to a given market. Oh, and FWIW, Kia offers four different models that list at less than the MSRP of the cheapest VW, the Jetta S.

VW needs to sell more cars to be #1 in the world. Personally, I think that's a poor goal. But they've decided to make the effort. They're not going to get there on diesel manual-transmission brown station wagons. You can't be quirky all the way to the top.

VW is going to have to sell what most people want to buy, which is space and comfort and reliability. That's not going to happen as fast with the junior-Phaeton Euro Passat or the Golf as it will with the bigger, dumbed-down NMS Passat and NA Jetta. I don't think VW is going to hit their mark if they don't fix their dealer/service network (the reliability thing), but that should be easier with simpler models.

Interestingly, both the American Passat and Jetta models also are sold in China, another market that's too big to be ignored in the run for #1. And, again FWIW, even Toyota and Honda make models customized for the U.S.

We may not be crazy about what VW wants to become. But it's hard to argue the path to get there.
 

gcodori

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As a Kia owner (DW's Kia Soul), I could not argue with a straight face that Kia is becoming the "new VW". Maybe Mazda; not Kia. There's a model or two with some appeal to enthusiasts. But they're not at the bottom (Soul, Optima) where most buyers are. Kia (and Hyundai) rarely are the brands introducing new tech to a given market. Oh, and FWIW, Kia offers four different models that list at less than the MSRP of the cheapest VW, the Jetta S.

VW needs to sell more cars to be #1 in the world. Personally, I think that's a poor goal. But they've decided to make the effort. They're not going to get there on diesel manual-transmission brown station wagons. You can't be quirky all the way to the top.

VW is going to have to sell what most people want to buy, which is space and comfort and reliability. That's not going to happen as fast with the junior-Phaeton Euro Passat or the Golf as it will with the bigger, dumbed-down NMS Passat and NA Jetta. I don't think VW is going to hit their mark if they don't fix their dealer/service network (the reliability thing), but that should be easier with simpler models.

Interestingly, both the American Passat and Jetta models also are sold in China, another market that's too big to be ignored in the run for #1. And, again FWIW, even Toyota and Honda make models customized for the U.S.

We may not be crazy about what VW wants to become. But it's hard to argue the path to get there.
I don't really think that H/K are trying to become the new VW but they are definitely chasing the same demographics in some parts.

It has become well known that in addition to hiring away the designers from VW, that they also request to be positioned next to VW at auto shows and have designed their displays to be similar in design to VW.

Some of their offerings are positioned to be cheaper alternatives to european offerings, just as VW is meant to be a cheaper ticket into german autos.

The difficult part is that H/K has mastered the means to build a cheaper car across their entire lineup, while VW struggles with lowering the costs at the expense of losing the little things that made them so popular (including losing the uniqueness of their designs). The b6 passat was a better looking car than most Asian offerings but it was too small and too costly.

Some of VWs issues are down to perception - many EXPECT H/K offerings to be cheaper in both costs and quality. Despite how nice the new k9 or genesis is, it still doesn't meet the level of quality of upper level offerings from europe. The same applies to VW - people (and reviewers and fan-boys) expect more from the german entry regardless of price.

I still love VW and will most likely go with a Passat TDI again when the time comes to upgrade. This is ONLY due to the DIY nature afforded by this forum. If there was an Asian choice out there in the diesel arena (the aborted Mazda 6 diesel) it would be a strong contender (solely due to the reliability issue). The only other offerings that match up in terms of MPG/performance/driving dynamics are hybrids like the Avalon or the Accord.
 

Steve-o

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The difficult part is that H/K has mastered the means to build a cheaper car across their entire lineup, while VW struggles with lowering the costs at the expense of losing the little things that made them so popular (including losing the uniqueness of their designs).
VW could be as good as Hyundai/Kia at building an inexpensive car. MQB was a brilliant step in that direction, and the concept came from VW*, not H/K. VW certainly has global purchasing power that H/K can only dream of at this point. Yet...

Maybe it has something to do with quality control and customer service. H/K move on quickly when they find something isn't working. VW (like BMW and Daimler) seems far more likely to insist that the problem should be accepted because, well, German engineering and, besides, you didn't care for the car properly. Part of every car's cost is the cost of warranty work and recalls. It would be interesting to find out what H/K and Honda and VW and FIAT charge for that...

* apparently Renault has an architecture similar to MQB also.

Some of VWs issues are down to perception - many EXPECT H/K offerings to be cheaper in both costs and quality. Despite how nice the new k9 or genesis is, it still doesn't meet the level of quality of upper level offerings from europe. The same applies to VW - people (and reviewers and fan-boys) expect more from the german entry regardless of price.
People said the same kinds of things about Toyota when they introduced Lexus. Maybe the Asian manufacturers still don't hit the very highest levels of automotive engineering. But they do compensate for not being on the "bleeding edge" by not exacting a pint of blood from their owners in the form of expensive failures and repairs. For many buyers, that's much more important.

I think VW in North America finds itself as a crossroads. It's hard to sell "German-engineered" when the NA Jetta and rebadged Chrysler Town & Countrys sit on the sales floor. It's hard to sell "value for money" with $32K GTIs and Golf Sportwagons (by no means "halo cars"). It's hard to sell "fun to drive and economical" when they are flogging ancient engines and "it comes in four colors [and two of them are gray]". It's hard to sell customers on engineering when the engineering doesn’t matter to them (I love that VW warrants against rust for 12 years. But if I were the typical H/K driver trading in every four years or so, why would I care?).

Maybe once VW decides what makes a VW a VW, they can concentrate on creating them more efficiently. Meanwhile, I think Hyundai/Kia have a very good idea of who they are -- Japan, circa 1990. And they'll likely avoid the mistakes the Japanese made, too.
 

panthers89fan90

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That car looks oh so schmexy. The powerful new tdi engines look great also. If I didn't hate new diesels because the DPF issues with all of them, I would like to see the European models over here.
 

jimlockey

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It isn't much different than my Jetta Sportwagen TDI. The Passat requires urea added to the diesel and the Jetta TDI does not. The Passat cost more than a Jetta and isn't that much difference in size. I chose a 14 Jetta tdi over a Passat for that reason. The 14 Jetta has plenty of room in the back seat for adults.
 

VeeDubTDI

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It isn't much different than my Jetta Sportwagen TDI. The Passat requires urea added to the diesel and the Jetta TDI does not. The Passat cost more than a Jetta and isn't that much difference in size. I chose a 14 Jetta tdi over a Passat for that reason. The 14 Jetta has plenty of room in the back seat for adults.
Interesting assessment.

All 2015s will get DEF (diesel exhaust fluid / urea) and the Passat is significantly larger than the Jetta (that's not to say that the Jetta is small, because it certainly isn't).
 

jhinsc

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Saw a lot of Passats in Europe the past couple weeks. Looks similar but noticeably smaller. The love their wagons there! While I would have preferred a NMS Passat wagon, I'm happy our US Passat is larger.
 

tikal

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Location
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
What Americans want to but is not necessarily what TDIClub members want to buy.
Americans want to buy comfortable SUVs and pickup trucks that have a nice pickup speed to get on the freeway ramp. No manual transmissions required.
Does VW sell these in the US at competitive prices to similar models?
I currently drive a 2001 NB TDI and have passed 1/4 million miles. Extremely happy with VW...UNTIL NOW.
I was hoping to step up to a new passat in the near future. I discovered that VW was switching to the new platform and new engines across the board.
I waited with baited breath for the new passat. And low and behold, the US once again gets the worst selection of choices. No wagon. Old platform. Cheap boring design outside and inside. More promises of wagon concepts and talk about better SUV choices. AAAAAND then nuthin'.
I guess North America isn't that important to VW's business. You know the economy is doing better when a company can give the middle finger to an entire market. Chick-fil-a felt the same way about 1/4 of the worlds population (but that's a discussion for elsewhere).
So after some research I'll most likely pick up a used E320 CDI with the inline 6 diesel. It's the last model with the inline (easy to work on, no DPF or DEF) diesel. It makes 370 ft/pounds torque with only one turbo (compared to a 10 year newer engine design that needs two).
It sickens me to know that VW can build the euro passat here in america. They could if they wanted to - it's probably as easy as flipping a switch (all cars are robot built today). Yes I know it's more involved than that but I'm ranting here...
VW desired to be the biggest auto maker. Sales here are dropping and this new passat is why. They lost their design edge, they lost the enthusiast market, and never improved the perception of reliability. If they really wanted to succeed they would bring this euro passat here even if it meant taking a loss. Bringing an exciting upscale design does wonders for brand perception - just ask KIA and Hyundai.
Kia has been chasing VW in order to be the "New VW". They hired up the VW designers. They moved upscale and increased enthusiast motoring (v8's and sporty models). And VW has decided to go bottom of the barrel in the US, the market Kia moved away from. OH SWEET IRONY.
 

donDavide

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Location
Severna Park, Maryland USA
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To increase drivability, the new Passat will offer Park Assist as well as a 360-degree view camera that gives the driver a complete view around the vehicle at low speeds. Under the hood, you’ll find a twin-turbo 2.0-liter diesel engine that produces 240 horsepower and a 7-speed DSG transmission, coupled with Volkswagen’s 4MOTION All-Wheel Drive. The Passat will also be available as a plug-in hybrid with an electric-only range of 31 miles.


- See more at: http://www.nalleyvwnews.com/Article...ighth-generation-passat2#sthash.SC8AN1dw.dpuf
Mouth Watering!!! (Not over the HYbrid)
 

gcodori

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northern california (bay area)
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Looks like this article got the b8 (euro) mixed up with the US passat.

Will any of the goodies other than the new engine and the new radio make it to the US? Past vw moves show that the US will most likely get the fewest and cheapest options over here.
 

gcodori

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Seeing that there have been no spy shots of the NA passat running around with camouflage...

The most vw has hinted at is they have just recently begun to TALK about what the redesign will be like. They made no mention of the new platform. Which is a shame as the new TN plant can make the new platform.

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SilverGhost

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Well, no new body and interior yet, but 2015 here with new engine. Probably means face lift will be next year or a mid year change.

Jason
 

dubStrom

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2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
The new more powerful engine may deliver lower MPG in the Passat. I was amazed at the average city MPG I got in my 2013 SE 6MT (over 40-80% city), and remarkable highway mpg. I drove a tank with three additional passengers and luggage ~765 miles and got nearly 60 mpg, including driving through mountains and a 10k mountain pass. Range told me I still had 120 miles to go when I filled up.
 

tikal

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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Computer vs paper and pencil method for mileage

Well we know that the TDI is the highway king of efficiency. I am curious of what average speed you had in those 765 miles. Did you ever cross check your MPG with the classical method of 'paper and pencil' when you filled up your tank.
In my 2004 Passat I am noticing so far that the computer is optimistic by maybe around 1 MPG or so.
The new more powerful engine may deliver lower MPG in the Passat. I was amazed at the average city MPG I got in my 2013 SE 6MT (over 40-80% city), and remarkable highway mpg. I drove a tank with three additional passengers and luggage ~765 miles and got nearly 60 mpg, including driving through mountains and a 10k mountain pass. Range told me I still had 120 miles to go when I filled up.
 

dubStrom

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Well we know that the TDI is the highway king of efficiency. I am curious of what average speed you had in those 765 miles. Did you ever cross check your MPG with the classical method of 'paper and pencil' when you filled up your tank.
In my 2004 Passat I am noticing so far that the computer is optimistic by maybe around 1 MPG or so.
I do not rely on the MFI display. This was actual number of miles divided by number of gallons used (shown on the pump at the Texaco where I filled). Follow the Fuelly link in my signature for details. I traded it for a 2014 JSW last month but have not updated my signature or fuelly account. The Passat records are there complete- number of miles on the TRIP meter, and gallons added. I did see 60 mpg on the MFI estimate. Sometimes it was real. But the average for the tank was not 60. The range at fill clearly put me on track for a personal record. 4 people AND luggage-mountain pass. All real. Note: Higher altitude DOES return better mpg in a TDI. I just looked and it was actually 53.5 mpg, not "nearly 60". But I know it's true, because I experienced it. Sorry for the exaggeration.

Back to the point... The new more powerful new engine in 2015 (maybe) is likely to get lower mpg.
 
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gcodori

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northern california (bay area)
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2001 NB TDI plus CPO 2013 Passat TDI SEL Prem.


Well, no new body and interior yet, but 2015 here with new engine. Probably means face lift will be next year or a mid year change.

Jason
Is this another case of a buried oil filter?

Also vw mentioned that mpg will increase about 2 mpg across the board.

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dubStrom

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2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
Is this another case of a buried oil filter?

Also vw mentioned that mpg will increase about 2 mpg across the board.

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Yes... Looks like oil chang nightmare. Frankly, it is one of the reasons I traded the Passat.
 

dubStrom

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Well we know that the TDI is the highway king of efficiency. I am curious of what average speed you had in those 765 miles. Did you ever cross check your MPG with the classical method of 'paper and pencil' when you filled up your tank.
In my 2004 Passat I am noticing so far that the computer is optimistic by maybe around 1 MPG or so.
The NMS Passat (CKRA) does not have the same engine as the MKVI Golf/Sportwagen (CBEA, CJAA), and NMS Passat has been getting better mpg than Golf/Sportwagen, has torque developing sooner (smaller turbo). So the new Golf/Sportwagen engine would have to be improved to even match the Passat's mpg AND power curve performance.

I've owned both cars (look at TDI's owned to the left), and we recently traded in our 2013 Passat for a 2014 JSW (Golf Variant-CJAA) because we just like the Sportwagen for lots of other reasons-but not necessarily for a "better" engine. CJAA is good engine though, and in it's fourth year so should have upgrades and kinks worked out. I do not miss in the Passat's CRKA urea injection system (a liability in the long run), and I suppose the vulnerable turbo. Losing the urea system was a plus:rolleyes:

Is your Passat DSG? That also makes a difference even though EPA estimates are the same. Our 2010 JSW was DSG, and paired with CJAA, it underperformed in mpg and just not as quick compared to the CKRA (6MT helped). We are hoping for better mpg in the 2014.
 
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SilverGhost

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Oil filter is on the bottom like a VR6 Jetta. Pretty easy to get at from underneath.

CVCA engine code (BTW none of the engines show a 4 digit engine code)

SCR injector on top - next to timing belt cover. New Adblue tank with bottom access to electronics. Exhaust flap is now welded in. No muffler

Jason
 

VeeDubTDI

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Oil filter is on the bottom like a VR6 Jetta. Pretty easy to get at from underneath.

CVCA engine code (BTW none of the engines show a 4 digit engine code)

SCR injector on top - next to timing belt cover. New Adblue tank with bottom access to electronics. Exhaust flap is now welded in. No muffler

Jason
So gone is the cartridge oil filter?

10-4 on CVCA engine code, which I suppose is abbreviated to CVC on the engine's identification sticker.

No muffler anymore? That's a nice little weight savings, especially considering that the muffler didn't do anything anyway with all of that other stuff upstream of it.
 

donDavide

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So gone is the cartridge oil filter?

10-4 on CVCA engine code, which I suppose is abbreviated to CVC on the engine's identification sticker.

No muffler anymore? That's a nice little weight savings, especially considering that the muffler didn't do anything anyway with all of that other stuff upstream of it.
3.6 VR6 takes same filter as MK5 PD, just on the bottom, it also has a little drain! (mine is stripped, going to get a new one next change, but not much oil comes out anyway)
 

tikal

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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Is your Passat DSG? That also makes a difference even though EPA estimates are the same. Our 2010 JSW was DSG, and paired with CJAA, it underperformed in mpg and just not as quick compared to the CKRA (6MT helped). We are hoping for better mpg in the 2014.
My 2004 Passat (BHW engine/PD) used to have the Tiptronic transmission (five speed) but last year it was converted to a five speed manual. So much better in all fronts!
Recently I talked with a VW technician (used to work for VW in the development of these engines but now has his own shop in the Houston area) who mentioned that the reason the NMS Passat gets better mileage than the same year Golf/Jetta is because of the different gear ratios and not so much to the fact that one has the urea system (Passat) and the others do not (Golf/Jetta).
 
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