GTD in 2015?

A massive recall? Please.

Some people have had issues. MOST have not. Look, I service a ton of these cars and many past 180K already and none of them have had any issue sans one turbo at 125K miles.

The DSG transmissions, EGR coolers and cam/lifters in the 5.5-6 cars are FAR more trouble than the CR cars have ever been.

tedbe said:

It is a sad commentary that VW has never had to own up to the HPFP problem over four years. Instead they just wait for the redesign and deny, deny, deny. They should have been forced to do a massive recall and make the whole thing right, instead they are allowed to stonewall. They should have been fined and made to make everyone whole. This should have cost them many millions...instead, they now know that refusing to be responsible is a successful business strategy.

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They shoulda, shoulda and shoulda...........puts a smile on my face.

Isn't there a ongoing NHTSA investigation going on????? It will all wash out in the end..........be patient.

jasonTDI said:

A massive recall? Please.

Some people have had issues. MOST have not. Look, I service a ton of these cars and many past 180K already and none of them have had any issue sans one turbo at 125K miles.

The DSG transmissions, EGR coolers and cam/lifters in the 5.5-6 cars are FAR more trouble than the CR cars have ever been.

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e

Maybe open up shop in California, if you want to see some failed HPFP's, since it leads the way in HPFP's grenading the whole fuel system. any person in their right mind is going to take a failed HPFP to the dealership to get it covered under warranty, certainly not to you, as the only way to pretty much get a replacement HPFP is through Volkswagen of America, and they are keeping a tight lid on inventory control.

In going down to my local VW dealership, I've seen 3 failed HPFP's in the service area on jetta's or JSW's, and 1 on a Touareg CR V6 TDI. They fail, believe it, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Toaureg Failed HPFP. Picking up oil filters for my 2012 passat tdi SE when this was on the rack.




New fuel lines to replace the contaminated one.



Let's pull that pressure sensor to check the guts.




Shrapnel, this ones fragg'ed by a cam roller grenade.



3:2 timing belt arrangement for the V6, versus 1:1 on a Ford or GMC V8.



Let's send these injectors in for a full rebuild too, so that metal particles won't stick a common rail injector wide open and blow torch a hole in a piston below. New fuel cooler and new fuel pump too, junked by debris from a grenade frag job.

Niner said:

e

Maybe open up shop in California, if you want to see some failed HPFP's, since it leads the way in HPFP's grenading the whole fuel system. any person in their right mind is going to take a failed HPFP to the dealership to get it covered under warranty, certainly not to you, as the only way to pretty much get a replacement HPFP is through Volkswagen of America, and they are keeping a tight lid on inventory control.

In going down to my local VW dealership, I've seen 3 failed HPFP's in the service area on jetta's or JSW's, and 1 on a Touareg CR V6 TDI. They fail, believe it, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

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Every part can fail..............Is California high or is it because they have the most TDIs on the road? I don't know...

Yes please, GTD now please. Better yet, a diesel Audi TTRS with quattro.

Unless the lift everything as is out of the Passat, you're dealing with a V 1.0 engine again.

Why's that touareg got the Exhaust removed? for engine removal? and that's not timing belt but Fuel pump belt. I guess a timing belt of sorts,as the V6 tdi has chains.

Regarding Niners posting here's my question: What caused the pump to fail. Until we know that we can only guess. Some will say Bosch is crap and others might say 'did they pump RUG into the car. We just don't know.

Pictures add drama but no facts.

IMO Bosch made these cp4 series pumps on a price point and got screwed. The old cp3 will last longer then there injectors and I have heard of misfuels that did not hurt the hpfp but was hard on the injectors. This is all duramax info by the way.

Hey niner how many were misfuels at that deal you were talking about? And how about water in fuel, thanks to VW we have no idea if we get water in fuel.

jasonTDI said:

A massive recall? Please.

Some people have had issues. MOST have not. Look, I service a ton of these cars and many past 180K already and none of them have had any issue sans one turbo at 125K miles.

The DSG transmissions, EGR coolers and cam/lifters in the 5.5-6 cars are FAR more trouble than the CR cars have ever been.

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^
This.

I'd like to know how many threads (like this one) have nothing to do with HPFP problems, yet folks keep helping blow things out of proportion, and how many have to do with genuine HPFP problems. I think 50:1 would be conservative odds.

Better not go see the new Batman movie. I hear that there are countless shootings at those across the country.....

aren't there already 11ty threads discussing the HPFP? does it really need to be in this thread?

BlueCTTDi said:

aren't there already 11ty threads discussing the HPFP? does it really need to be in this thread?

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Exactly what I was thinking, back on topic, if the GTD makes it over I'm trading ASAP.

sledstorm1 said:

Hey niner how many were misfuels at that deal you were talking about? And how about water in fuel, thanks to VW we have no idea if we get water in fuel.

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None. Failures at 18k miles, 14k miles and 24k miles, all original owners. Every car had it's fuel tested, all of the tests passed for diesel fuel in specification.

Exhaust is removed so that fuel tank can be dropped, because it has to be replaced due to contamination. metal fines in everything in the complete fuel system, that will destroy the new HPFP also.

GTIDan said:

Regarding Niners posting here's my question: What caused the pump to fail. Until we know that we can only guess. Some will say Bosch is crap and others might say 'did they pump RUG into the car. We just don't know.

Pictures add drama but no facts.

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Pictures add statistics. They don't lie. If VW knew why they were failing, they'd fix the problem, ya think? Too many folks have had failures with no misfueling... died at all kinds of mileage. A guy had a failure at 145k, and had to get a district manager involved after 3 denials to repair under warranty, before Vw finally covered the full repair. That right there is an admission of guilt, the pump is long out of warranty at 60k miles.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=357285

Let me ask you this: To date, why have no HPFP's failed on 2012 Passat TDI's?


Could it be that it operates at only 1600 to 1800 bar pressure, instead of 2000, which looks to exceed the design limitations of an aluminum bore in a HPFP built by Bosch? The Passat uses solenoid injectors, all the others use piezo injectors. Is that the cause? The passat uses a smaller turbo, and really resists having itself wound up even close to red line. Less rpm = less stress on the HPFP on trailing throttle applications, which spike the HPFP pressures through the roof.

Have a look at plus 3 golfers posts by demographics, and you'll see southern tier states at lower elevations have high HPFP failure rates. And his data is based on just a small snap shot in time, the fall of 2010 for failures, 4 months, tops. High ambient heat temps daily = less lubrication barrier in the fuel, and thinner viscosity of the fuel and less protection of parts that wear.
co
Not every one lives in a northern tier state, or by the coast or by the Continental divide, or in a state that mandates a percentage of biodiesel in their diesel fuel.

Trooper81 said:

Why's that touareg got the Exhaust removed? for engine removal? and that's not timing belt but Fuel pump belt. I guess a timing belt of sorts,as the V6 tdi has chains.

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It is a timing belt, the HPFP is timed off the cam, pulse modulation to coincide with injector timing.

Niner said:

3:2 timing belt arrangement for the V6, versus 1:1 on a Ford or GMC V8.

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The HPFP is driven off the camshaft, which itself is 1:2 to the crank.

GTD in as a 2014 model? Probably too early to trade up from my 11 Golf, but maybe the 10 JSW. But only if we really get the boosted engine from the GTD and not just a rebadged Golf TDI. I wonder if VW would consider putting that boosted engine in the Sportwagen? Now that would be a real sleeper!

Hey niner how many of those hpfp's were covered under warranty?

VW would have done well to market the current Golf TDI as the GTD. The trim and suspension are so similar to the GTI as it is.

sledstorm1 said:

Hey niner how many of those hpfp's were covered under warranty?

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That's between the customer and the dealership, I don't know the answer to that one. Pretty sure, due to the process involved in getting the HPFP on the T'rag and the JSW, that they were covered by VW of America. Not sure on the jetta. Whole bunch of hoops, including fuel tests from samples, and the results are involved when VW picks up the tab, which lengthens the time of the repair in the shop before clearance is given.

thegrey said:

VW would have done well to market the current Golf TDI as the GTD. The trim and suspension are so similar to the GTI as it is.

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Agreed.

Thunderstruck said:

Unless the lift everything as is out of the Passat, you're dealing with a V 1.0 engine again.

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More like a V0.8.36.255 beta...

How does Passat CKRA fit into the MKVI to MKVII? Is it a variant of MKVI? So there's no info on what a MKVII is? Any
AWD crossover in there?

It's so close. AWD would make it perfect!

ssamalin said:

How does Passat CKRA fit into the MKVI to MKVII? Is it a variant of MKVI? So there's no info on what a MKVII is?

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I don't understand the question you asked. I'll try to answer the question that I think you want to ask.

The engine generations aren't necessarily the same as the vehicle generations. The North American Passat is not part of the new MQB vehicle architecture. The engine that it contains is based on the design of the engine in the Mk6 Golf and Jetta (neither of which are MQB either) but with various improvements to address some issues that had become apparent with the Mk6 design by the time the Passat hit production.

If you look at the Passat's air-to-coolant intercooler, you can tell that it is something bodged together in a hurry after it became apparent that the G/J air-to-air intercooler had issues in cold weather.

It's also rather likely that the Passat's solenoid-operated injectors operating at a slightly lower pressure, are an attempt to ease the load on the HPFP (and presumably to reduce cost).

The Mk7 (MQB) vehicles are bringing a new engine designation EA288.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/detailed-vw’s-new-2-0-liter-ea288-four-cylinder-tdi-diesel/

To call it a "version 1.0" is perhaps too strong. I would call it a "version 2.0". It is obvious that one big lesson learned - that the intercooler temperature has to be regulated above freezing if low-pressure EGR is used - is now built into the design. You can bet your bottom dollar that "make this HPFP problem go away" was a very strong directive to the engineering department, too.

The article suggests that it will be using a urea-based NOx reduction system ... and photos have been published of the MQB vehicle chassis complete with its large urea tank clearly visible. The experience with the Passat has been that having to deal with urea is worthwhile from the point of view of reducing fuel consumption.

The picture of the engine suggests that the SCR catalyst is being brought into the engine compartment and built into the engine rather than being an add-on device underneath the floor. Good move. Unlikely to have any major negative repercussions, either.

I'd much rather buy the version 2.0 engine (EA288) than the version 1.0 engine. It seems that even the halfway-house engine that's in the Passat is doing okay ... I just don't need a car that big.

I want a MKVI golf with the passat's engine and emission system in it. Is that too much to ask for?

GoFaster said:

.....
The Mk7 (MQB) vehicles are bringing a new engine designation EA288.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/detailed-vw’s-new-2-0-liter-ea288-four-cylinder-tdi-diesel/

To call it a "version 1.0" is perhaps too strong. I would call it a "version 2.0". It is obvious that one big lesson learned - that the intercooler temperature has to be regulated above freezing if low-pressure EGR is used - is now built into the design. You can bet your bottom dollar that "make this HPFP problem go away" was a very strong directive to the engineering department, too.

.........

I'd much rather buy the version 2.0 engine (EA288) than the version 1.0 engine. It seems that even the halfway-house engine that's in the Passat is doing okay ... I just don't need a car that big.

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By far the best post explaining the current circumstances of the available tdi engines out there. In a nutshell, I believe that unless one has absolutely no choice in the matter (ie I have to buy a new car in the immediate future or die), that it is better to waite for this new engine design to arrive in 2014 (which is what the time line seems to be for it) and why, I believe it is an absolute mistake for VW to soldier on with the current crap engine designs until then. Sadly, those with the current generation tdi engines will probably be left to their own devices to fix what VW won't or can't .........

turbocharged798 said:

I want a MKVI golf with the passat's engine and emission system in it. Is that too much to ask for?

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Obviously it is too much to ask at this point. Until VW treat us, American customers, as stepchildren and not giving us any choice of diesel engines for Golf or Passat or cars (1,6 BlueMotion or Golf GTD or Polo TDI with 1.2 engine or Passat Variant), the 800,000 sales mark will be just a dream
(Yeaah, I know the GTD is coming, eventually)

I must not have read the article close enough the first time I saw it. Didn't realize that all the cars with the new diesel engine would get the DEF. That means that my current cars will continue to be at the bottom of possible mileage for VW diesels. Gives me more of an arguement to replace them after the 2014 models hit the lots. I wonder if there will ever be any way to retrofit the urea treatment on the current golf/jetta engines?