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TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

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Old January 9th, 2017, 11:56   #16
Mspry
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This is possible but at the same time some starting fluid down the air intake(yes I know not the best option but I was trying to narrow it down) and it fires right up. Leads me to believe it's more of a fuel delivery problem.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 17:53   #17
Mspry
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Alright guys sorry for the delay, but I just managed to get the code scanner. The only one I got other than the low engine temp one I mentioned before. P0102 which after some research is the mass air flow sensor. Any ideas on where to proceed now?
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Old January 10th, 2017, 18:29   #18
turbovan+tdi
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Disconnect the MAF, this puts the computer into default mode and it should run semi decent.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 21:54   #19
Mspry
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Ok so after researching this a little more I've realized that this engine doesn't have a mass injector pump, but rather a pump that runs of the back of the cam which supplies fuel down a rail under the valve cover to the injectors. The injectors have a spring on them and rather than have a high pressure pump, each injector is ran off lobes on the can and is a pump/injector that is ran off a rocket arm. I've pulled the valve cover and verified that these are all in fact being pumped by the cam. Am I correct in assuming that the ecm only controls the amount of fuel and the pressure at which it is injected? Also does anybody agree that the only possible issue could be the pump?
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Old January 10th, 2017, 22:05   #20
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Read this and this.

http://karmakanix.com/knowledgebase/...use-injection/

http://www.myarchive.us/richc/VW_TDI_with_PumpeDuse.pdf
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2004 GSW TDI, blue, 5 speed-Daily driver-malone stage 2, no kitty, aeroturbine muffler.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 09:43   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mspry View Post
Ok so after researching this a little more I've realized that this engine doesn't have a mass injector pump, but rather a pump that runs of the back of the cam which supplies fuel down a rail under the valve cover to the injectors. The injectors have a spring on them and rather than have a high pressure pump, each injector is ran off lobes on the can and is a pump/injector that is ran off a rocket arm. I've pulled the valve cover and verified that these are all in fact being pumped by the cam. Am I correct in assuming that the ecm only controls the amount of fuel and the pressure at which it is injected? Also does anybody agree that the only possible issue could be the pump?
A faulty tandem pump can certainly cause a no-start and is a likely cause if nothing else seems to surface. You can check the pressure it creates with a 0-150PSI pressure gauge and a a fitting to adapt to the port on the head.

Here is a thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=425876

I ran into this problem on a car a BEW engine a few years ago. The owner said it just quit out of nowhere while driving. Tried a substitute tandem pump as well; Still not a hint of fuel being injected. No codes being thrown.

I tried everything before putting in a different set of injectors...and then it fired right up. Don't know how it could have trashed all four injectors at once but, that was the fix.
The fuel itself looked a bit suspect so I drained the tank to start fresh. Still running today as far as I know.

If the o ring seals on the bodies of the injectors are hardened and broken, it can cause low pressure in the rail, too.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 09:44   #22
Carlos_TJ
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Also make sure:
Asv is not stuck close
Egr is not stuck open

I know from your previous information looks like this is a fuel delivery problem, and the asv / egr is an air delivery checkpoint, but the maf code puts noise into this

Last edited by Carlos_TJ; January 11th, 2017 at 09:49.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 10:23   #23
Mspry
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I removed the EGR last night to gain access to the valve cover bolts. The EGR did have quite a bit of carbon in it, but as I mentioned before starting fluid down the air intake and the car starts right up. Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking on this but wouldn't that eliminate an issue on the air intake side of things? JETaah, thanks for the information. I definitely appreciate any info I can get. I have the tandem pump off the car. Simple enough. My main issue is I don't really have any way of testing it without the car running. :/ I did read an article that talked cavitation inside the tandem pump causing the metal to flake lose and possibly plug injectors. It's sounding like I'm going to get to replace the tandem pump, then if that doesn't work replace injectors. Does this seem like a reasonable assumption and train of thought? I'm fairly confident in this, but at the same time, reassurance from someone that knows more about it than myself makes it a little easier to proceed. lol. Basically curious if you think I should try the tandem pump or injectors first, or both. My reasoning behind my thinking of the pump first is because if the flaking and plugging of the injectors is true, I'd hate to buy a new set of injectors just to plug them up.

Last edited by Mspry; January 11th, 2017 at 10:28.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 12:47   #24
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I'd borrow/rent/buy a gauge before spending the money on a tandem pump. Throwing parts at a car gets really expensive when you don't really know what happened.

You really need a proper scanner so you can check for cam and cranks signals as it won't start if one of those goes out but will start on ether.
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2003 GSW, 2.0L ALH, Colt Cam, 1756 turbo, auto, silver, 380k-Wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, blue, 5 speed-Daily driver-malone stage 2, no kitty, aeroturbine muffler.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 14:26   #25
Mspry
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The gauge isn't much of deal, the problem is, is there a way to test the pressure without the car running? Also, I understand that the Snap-On scanner isn't the preferred tool for these cars, but would the ECM not show a Power train code if one of these sensors were bad?
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Old January 11th, 2017, 14:40   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mspry View Post
The gauge isn't much of deal, the problem is, is there a way to test the pressure without the car running? Also, I understand that the Snap-On scanner isn't the preferred tool for these cars, but would the ECM not show a Power train code if one of these sensors were bad?
You can still see if the pump is producing pressure, this is the key here.

Snap ON should be able to see cam and crank sensor info.
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1984 6.2 Diesel Get A Way van, remote turbo setup designed/installed by me, burning anything that burns.
2003 GSW, 2.0L ALH, Colt Cam, 1756 turbo, auto, silver, 380k-Wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, blue, 5 speed-Daily driver-malone stage 2, no kitty, aeroturbine muffler.
2003 JSW 1.8T future TDI, silver. 2006 JSW, TDI 5 speed, blue.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 15:15   #27
Mspry
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The other thing is that when cranking, the tach comes up after a few seconds. This would eliminate the crank sensor being an issue correct? I have also attached a clear tube on the return of the tandem pump from it to the filter. There is very very little pressure at that point.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 22:17   #28
Rangerbentman
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The more I read of all the problems people experience with TDI and Jetta's the more I want my old 91 no computer Jetta back. Surely this is an uncommon event to have a car die and then go to all this trouble to find a cure? Now I am looking at getting the noise out of my 2005 TDI and wondering if I should shoot it now to avoid this sort of thing in it's future?
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Old January 13th, 2017, 13:24   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerbentman View Post
The more I read of all the problems people experience with TDI and Jetta's the more I want my old 91 no computer Jetta back. Surely this is an uncommon event to have a car die and then go to all this trouble to find a cure? Now I am looking at getting the noise out of my 2005 TDI and wondering if I should shoot it now to avoid this sort of thing in it's future?
Yep, they are piles of crap, I'll glady take it off your hands for penny's on the dollar, they aren't worth the fuel you're putting in.
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1984 6.2 Diesel Get A Way van, remote turbo setup designed/installed by me, burning anything that burns.
2003 GSW, 2.0L ALH, Colt Cam, 1756 turbo, auto, silver, 380k-Wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, blue, 5 speed-Daily driver-malone stage 2, no kitty, aeroturbine muffler.
2003 JSW 1.8T future TDI, silver. 2006 JSW, TDI 5 speed, blue.
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