VW reliability, expensive repairs tdi and gas

Hi there,
This topic is likely covered elsewhere, but I have yet to find it, so I am posting my specific concerns.

First of all I am the original owner of a 2007 vw rabbit, 2.5L auto. This car has been stone reliable, it currently has 197,000kms on it and when I say I have done nothing to this car, I mean nothing. Original brakes, rotors, not even a alignment done. We've put on tires and done religious synthetic oil changes.

I am the type of person that gets bored of toys and vehicles very easy and I still like getting in this car every day for my 260km commute. The seats fit like a glove, it handles very well, good power and handles 140km/h + highway speeds no problem. Of course with this said, I could absolutely use something better on fuel given the 50,000-60,000kms per year.

I have read and researched "tdi's" since I started my long commute to work, with many loyal owners who swear by them, but even more owners/ex-owners and reviews saying to stay away, given extremely expensive repair bills and now the HPFP issue.

-Is it possible that a lot of tdi issues are caused by the owners themselves and poor maintenance?
-Are the 2006, 2009-2012 tdi's too complicated and littered with headaches?
-Do you recommend finding a well cared for ALH tdi?

My question is to the experienced tdi onwers:
2012 tdi golf wagon manual vs. 2003 tdi wagon manual
OR
another faithful 2012 golf wagon 2.5L
???

Sorry for the long post.

Peterborough NH?

Dusto said:

Hi there,
This topic is likely covered elsewhere, but I have yet to find it, so I am posting my specific concerns.

My question is to the experienced tdi onwers:
2012 tdi golf wagon manual vs. 2003 tdi wagon manual
OR
another faithful 2012 golf wagon 2.5L
???

Sorry for the long post.

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If you had bought a 2007 prius you would have saved maybe ... 6K to 7K dollars in fuel costs, possibly more.
The used 2007 Rabbit looks to cost about 5K less compared to 2007 Prius
so not only have you paid more for gas you have lost more in depreciation.

Plan on driving a bunch for the next 5 years ...and primarily concerned about costs ?
Don't buy another Rabbit/Golf

You won't appreciate the awesome reliability of your 2.5/auto until you buy a 2009-2012 TDI and it craps out on you in a million different ways. Wait until VW starts selling Delphi injection pumps and you might have a better experience.

What mpg are you getting?

I have to wonder if the cost of buying a new car would actually be offset by the fuel savings. D2 isn't as cheap as it used to be, you've lost a chunk of change to depreciation already, and you still like the car, albeit with low(er) mpg's than you'd like. Car has been shown to be w/o issue, also.

I'd think about keeping it, unless if it's a "I want to change" or "I can prove I can save money by buying new" or "I absolutely want to head off any issues by getting new every 5 years" or similar.

Personally, I would not get an ALH; they are not getting any younger. Sure, the issues are well known; and I wouldn't mind one as a spare or backup vehicle. But at this point in the game it's a used car, with all the crapshoot that used cars bring. At the very least I wouldn't get rid of the current car until its used ALH replacement was proven out over a few month's time. Also, have you sat in an MkIV? I think '07 is MkV, which likely has a different interior and driving dynamics; "going backwards" may or may not sit well with you.

BTW, I think most of the TDi guru's will work on the gasser versions of these cars. Most if not all of those guys (gals?) work on more than just D2 powered VW's. If you keep this gasser you might want to strike up a relationship with one of them, so as to stave off any possible issues for when this car does have issues (as all cars eventually do have issues).

manual_tranny said:

You won't appreciate the awesome reliability of your 2.5/auto until you buy a 2009-2012 TDI and it craps out on you in a million different ways. Wait until VW starts selling Delphi injection pumps and you might have a better experience.

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here comes the troll again.....

tdi90hp said:

here comes the troll again.....

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Dude, I thought you were asked to stop insulting people recently? What happened to that?

Apparently the Golf TDI got the best reliability rating from Consumer Reports for the Volkswagen brand. The Routan got the worst.

You say you like the seats & driving of the MkV you have. It's basically the same car as a MkV TDi. If anything the TDi has a few extra niceties you do not have. Merely the engine is different. If you want to save on fuel costs alone, and like your MkV, why not a MkV TDi? The MkVI line has some differences you may not like so much.

manual_tranny said:

You won't appreciate the awesome reliability of your 2.5/auto until you buy a 2009-2012 TDI and it craps out on you in a million different ways. Wait until VW starts selling Delphi injection pumps and you might have a better experience.

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Actually DUDE you are the one throwing your usual derogatory remarks about CRs...why dont you troll VW vortex...they will love the troll.

NHgranite said:

Peterborough NH?

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I'm guessing Ontario since he uses kilometers

All I can say is that I have a 2011 Golf TDI (hatch), manual. I'm coming up on 30,000 problem-free km. Will it always be that way? Remains to be seen, but I drive similar distances to the OP each year and in addition to reduced fuel costs, I like the idea of doing my entire week on a single tank of fuel. In a 2.5 I'd probably be stopping every 3 days for gas. Seems like a minor point but when you're tired and faced with a 100 km commute, to be able to just point the nose for home and not have to stop on the way means something. I've got a routine, I fill up during my Saturday morning errands and I'm good until the next Saturday morning, which is about 950-1100 km away depending on the kind of week I have.

HPFP is causing some crossed fingers and toes, but I am religious about self-fueling and I kept every single receipt so far so nobody at VW can argue mis-fueling if the HPFP fails. Not that I'm likely to mis-fuel this being my 4th TDI and currently all our surface vehicles are diesel-powered (wife's Passat, my Golf, and my Kubota tractor).

Other than that, having driven a Rabbit, I think he'll find the driving experience with a Golf TDI quite similar if he gets the hatch.

tdi90hp said:

Actually DUDE you are the one throwing your usual derogatory remarks about CRs...why dont you troll VW vortex...they will love the troll.

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There are plenty of other regular posters who have little that's kind to say about the VW CR design, such as Harvieux (just one example). Plus, I'd guess that at least a dozen "veterans" here have said they won't buy a CR until the design is proven; that's not a very positive assessment from VW TDI fans. A car is not a person. It's an inanimate object. Unless you work for VW I find it hard to see justification for getting emotional at someone for criticizing their cars. Why not post a rebuttal of the comments by discussing the virtues of the CR design?

Some of the guys were noting on another thread that it looked like the 2012 Passat had some different plumbing on the fuel pump, some surmised, and I'm wondering, if VW changed the design to prevent a total fuel system disaster(and accompying large bill) if the pump failed.

gergg said:

Some of the guys were noting on another thread that it looked like the 2012 Passat had some different plumbing on the fuel pump, some surmised, and I'm wondering, if VW changed the design to prevent a total fuel system disaster(and accompying large bill) if the pump failed.

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can you copy us on thread?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=3587238#post3587238

can you copy us on thread?

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See if this attachment works, interesting thread, I was reading near the end of it where the Passat HPFP plumbing was being discussed.

oxford_guy said:

There are plenty of other regular posters who have little that's kind to say about the VW CR design, such as Harvieux (just one example). Plus, I'd guess that at least a dozen "veterans" here have said they won't buy a CR until the design is proven; that's not a very positive assessment from VW TDI fans. A car is not a person. It's an inanimate object. Unless you work for VW I find it hard to see justification for getting emotional at someone for criticizing their cars. Why not post a rebuttal of the comments by discussing the virtues of the CR design?

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i'm a veteran. i bought one. if there's one thing i've learned about car forums, it's that the issues we think are chronic are generally overblown. most people don't come online to talk about their cars. the ones who do are enthusiasts who notice every little thing, or people who have had serious issues. as a result, a very small percentage of people with problems looks far worse than it is. i love my 2011. i fill it up with irving every time, because i'm anal like that. would it really matter if i didn't? i suspect not. i won't be putting bio higher than 5% in it, but that's a design thing. ran straight bio in the '96. only thing that ever failed on that was the clutch. the hood got a nice big dent courtesy of my own poor reaction times, and the camshaft needed replacement thanks to my inability to remove the cam lock before tightening. other than that, it ran like a dream. and believe me, there were just as many arguments about this thing or that back then that came to nothing - air filters anyone? amsoil cam wear?

we're enthusiasts. that's rarely a compliment in the real world, and for good reason.

Veteran here as well, joined the board in 2000. Now on my 5th VW, 4 TDIs and a gasser. In spite of my first TDI having its share of issues (99 Mk IV Jetta), still here, and bought a 2011 Golf. Keeping fingers crossed about the HPFP, but otherwise love the car. Reminds me I have to make an appointment for the 30,000 km service.

I think it's worth noting that us 'pessimists' are not against VW. On the contrary, I believe that most of us want to see diesels succeed so bad that watching all these failures take place is horrifying! I am personally obsessed with the future of diesel technology. The impending turbocharger failures, the harmonic resonance in the fuel line, and the failure of the roller in the HPFP are all catastrophic failures that cost much more than the failures of previous TDIs. It tarnishes the reputation of diesel in the same way that GM's Oldsmobile 350 motor damaged the reputation of diesel.

Yes, more and more VW is covering this under warranty. But what about the many several CR TDI owners who have had to pay $8000+ out of pocket to repair their relatively new vehicles?

When people like me chime in I think we're being realists, not pessimists. I talk diesels with anyone and everyone I see every day. I would love nothing more than to try to convince them to buy a new diesel vehicle!!

It has been a surprise to me that from time to time, tdiclub members and personal friends of mine have taken my opinions and relayed facts on the CR TDI as a personal affront. That's absolutely not the case!! This thread (and others like it) popped up asking for opinion. That indicates to me that the OP is looking for a balanced view from the public. Both sides of the story are necessary to help him understand the public opinion.

So, I'm not interested in stifling those who have bought and love these cars. If money were no object, I would have one myself. It SHOULD go without saying that I would be much happier to be proven wrong about my projected failure rates than to be proven right. I have no ill-will against any of you who own the car, especially not ill-will generated by my opinion of your consumer decision. That would be ludicrous!

I want to see these cars going down the road 30 years from now. And THAT is why I want Bosch and VW to step up to the plate and take this issue seriously.

Your common Rail report has some really good information in it. I can understand why the car is engineered as it is, rather that tearing apart what is perceived to be weak points. I was amazed, however, that the report mentions "centrifugal force" as a way for the cyclones to separate the oil from the crankcase gas. I wish that word were banned from the dictionary. Yes, i believe in classic physics.