Garrett VNT 17 vs Borg Warner S7

Why is it that there always is garrett this gtxXXXX and that gtxXXXX, but only one bv39, it seams like you not reconice that in 2010 (late 2009) BW came out with 4th. gen vtg with shape vanes based on bv39.
Could one not use that to upgrade a first gen. or second (s7)?
If Borg warner has done something like Garrett then the same size should be able to do more and more boost from lower and lower revs.
I think it should be worth looking in to, but I sadly cant find any spec. on them 4th. gen bv39's.

Buy an S7. That will be the turbo I put on my wife's bew golf when my rabbit is finished.

The main problem with BW is those wonderful non replaceable actuators they put on their turbos. For people living in the rust belt, an actuator lasts about 6 years or so before it rots out. Garrett has been very good to us about providing replacement actuators for all their turbos.

Darkside Developments sells a bv39 replacement actuator.
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/kkk-vacuum-actuator-1-9-8v-tdi-engines-for-pd100-pd105-pd130.html?fullSite=1

I've been running the BW "VNT-17" from Boraparts for a little over a year now. Near as I can tell it's pretty similar to, if not the same thing as, the Kerma S7. If either of the vendors care to comment please do so, I don't want to be spreading rumor. I do know that it's a BV-39.

Coupled with the mods on my car it works great. I have no issues or complaints and seems to be of the absolute highest quality. The car runs like a scalded cat too. MPG is as good or better than it ever was and power....wow. It's a lot different than it was, no doubt there.

I've not dyno'd the car but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it were putting out somewhere in the neighborhood of 150hp. Someone who knows a bit more than I do could estimate I suppose. Bottom line is that I'm quite happy. If the OP want's to go with the S7 I'm pretty confident that he'll have the same results I've had.

So there. It might not be a perfect recommendation but I've run a BV-39 for a little over a year, the S7 is a BV-39... I'm happy. OP ought to be happy...

Ganoid said:

Darkside Developments sells a bv39 replacement actuator.
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/kkk-vacuum-actuator-1-9-8v-tdi-engines-for-pd100-pd105-pd130.html?fullSite=1

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I stand corrected. I guess its the smart actuators that are the issue.

If you put a "stupid" actuator on a BEW you have to write the feedback loop out of the ECU. Not optimal, I'm told.

I had the BW turbo installed over the week-end! So far I have driven it only about 70 miles or so. At my next tank I will start playing around at different power band ranges to see what it is like compared to the Garrett.
Thanks for all of you who have expressed an opinion whether biased or based on facts. After a month or so I will post an update on this thread.

I was wondering if anyone has dynode the S7 or is it to new.

vondiesel said:

I was wondering if anyone has dynode the S7 or is it to new.

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At the next GTG I will have the car dynoed however I don't think I have a previous Dyno with the Garrett VNT17.
So far it has been a pleasure to drive, great acceleration and I would have to agree with another poster that my mileage appears to have gone up about 2 to 3 miles a gallon.

NewTdi said:

At the next GTG I will have the car dynoed however I don't think I have a previous Dyno with the Garrett VNT17.
So far it has been a pleasure to drive, great acceleration and I would have to agree with another poster that my mileage appears to have gone up about 2 to 3 miles a gallon.

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What injectors are you running with your S7?

Love my VNT17... Just had my mods done and dyno'd it today at 163 WHP.

If I'd done the 17/22 I'm sure I'd have gone further where studs and getting into the bottom end would have been necessary. Or I'd have blown it up.

vondiesel said:

What injectors are you running with your S7?

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I am running Sprint 520's, 3 bar map, RC stage 3 tune. Comparing performance between the Garrett and the BW is not realistic because the Garret had issues! I do remember when the Garret VNT17 first was installed the car felt like a completely different beast. Unfortunately I did not have it dynoed back then. I do have a set of PP764 which I am going to install and see what the numbers are so I have something to compare with Big Swole since the set-ups are almost identical.

Bigswole is only running a standard stage 4 tune, there is still more power available after an exhaust upgrade, 63 whp gain on a base tune is decent though.

AARodriguez Corp. said:

Bigswole is only running a standard stage 4 tune, there is still more power available after an exhaust upgrade, 63 whp gain on a base tune is decent though.

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I was greatly impressed with what it gained with so little done.

Putting together a vid now as we speak. I'll post it soon.

Thanks A. Rod!

I have a S7 turbo from Kerma with 1019 dlc, 3 bar map and a taco intercooler. I recently dynoed my setup and got 156 whp at 110 degrees in the shop where I dynoed the car. I'm really impressed with the response of the turbo, I'm sure with more tune I can get more hp but I'm hesitant until I complete my exhaust system.
From what I have heard the S7 and the vnt 17 are very similar, 7hp difference is not much in my book to say whether the vnt 17 is better than the S7 especially since different variables can cause different results on the dyno.
I am more concern about the support I get after I purchase the turbo and tune from the supplier. I am sure all the suppliers here stand by their product. I am impressed with Kerma , Boraparts, AArodriequez and Malone when it comes to their customer service and solving issues that may arise.
S7/VNT17/bv39 whatever floats your boat, they are all good, choose what works for you personally, just choose one of the reputable suppliers posted on here.

turbophil said:

I have a S7 turbo from Kerma with 1019 dlc, 3 bar map and a taco intercooler. I recently dynoed my setup and got 156 whp at 110 degrees in the shop where I dynoed the car. I'm really impressed with the response of the turbo, I'm sure with more tune I can get more hp but I'm hesitant until I complete my exhaust system.
From what I have heard the S7 and the vnt 17 are very similar, 7hp difference is not much in my book to say whether the vnt 17 is better than the S7 especially since different variables can cause different results on the dyno.
I am more concern about the support I get after I purchase the turbo and tune from the supplier. I am sure all the suppliers here stand by their product. I am impressed with Kerma , Boraparts, AArodriequez and Malone when it comes to their customer service and solving issues that may arise.
S7/VNT17/bv39 whatever floats your boat, they are all good, choose what works for you personally, just choose one of the reputable suppliers posted on here.

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Well said

Agree as well!

August issue of Diesel Power Magazine has a decent write up
Just saw it at the grocery store yesterday

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1408_2002_volkswagen_jetta_tdi_jetta_fever_part_2/

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1406_2002_volkswagen_jetta_tdi_jetta_fever_part_1/

What do you think. http://www.kermatdi.com/servlet/-strse-8391/intake/Detail

I am getting a BW-VNT 17 installed by Roman in a few weeks with a Malone Stage 4. The rest of the story is in my signature. I wanted a turbo that spooled quickly, because of the trailering I do with a fully loaded 5 X 8 ' occasionally. I will let everyone know the results once I get the car back.

Sincerely,

Hello,
Got the car back a few weeks ago. It spools really quick, and gives sufficient power up top, although I'm sure that is where the Garrett shines. I got 50.6 mpg on my first non-trailer tank, and got 46-47 trailering heavy loads. I love the turbo, and I have the gauges to keep an eye on things. The turbo spooling quick has helped me trailer the 5 x 8 full of wood like nothing. Hope this helps others make a decision.

Sincerely,

Dan, Can you share a bit of information about your tune? What are you seeing for peak boost? Do you have a VCDS that you can take a boost long? Would you be willing to share a boost log?

I would love to compare your boost log with the S7 to my boost log with the GTC1549VZ. Right now my peak boost is set just over 26 psi and I need/want to make some adjustments. I am hitting 10 psi boost at 1500 rpm and 20 psi at 1750 rpm. Then at 2250 I am hitting 26.1 psi.

John,
I don't have VCDS to record a boost log. However, the turbo is spiking at 26 psi (which I think is too high for the turbo), because it's doing it when I turn the cruise on and I'm near the cruise speed I desire. For example between 70 to 78 when I turn the cruise on it will spike all the way to 26 psi and will quickly go down. The disconcerting aspect is that the RPM's are too high for that boost 2000 rpm's+. The tune is a stage 4 Malone tune with 22psi max, and it stays below that except for cruise. Seems like you and I are getting the same results. I am providing all this information based off of my gauges. Let me know if this helps.

Sincerely,

dan30thz28 said:

John,
I don't have VCDS to record a boost log. However, the turbo is spiking at 26 psi (which I think is too high for the turbo), because it's doing it when I turn the cruise on and I'm near the cruise speed I desire. For example between 70 to 78 when I turn the cruise on it will spike all the way to 26 psi and will quickly go down. The disconcerting aspect is that the RPM's are too high for that boost 2000 rpm's+. The tune is a stage 4 Malone tune with 22psi max, and it stays below that except for cruise. Seems like you and I are getting the same results. I am providing all this information based off of my gauges. Let me know if this helps.

Sincerely,

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No spikes here. It holds 26 psi out to over 3600 rpm. We set up the tune with the help of 8 different runs on the dyno for very low smoke operation. Had a more powerfull tune, but it smoked like crazy. This turbo spools REALLY quick. Thinking about moving the boost up to 30-31 psi, then adding back some fuel to seeing how that works early next year. TDTuning did the tuning for me while the car was on the dyno in Las Vegas. But more boost will mean shorter engine life.

John,
Oh ok yours is built for that, unlike mine. So I love how quickly it spools and the decent high end. Hope it lasts as long as my original turbo did.

John, I guess you're a believer in the GTC.

TDIMeister said:

John, I guess you're a believer in the GTC.

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TDIMeister, the turbo is excellent, has low end response and just keeps going. Think there are still some adjustments to be made to improve the low end further and it sure can push more air than I am getting right now. I only lost 10 hp by dialing back the fuel to a low smoke tune. I am a happy camper!

But I am still very interested to know how other turbos perform with the low end spool.

Having test driven it, I was pleasantly surprised to feel constant power in his engine. I was waiting for the feel, looking for the feel, but couldn't remotely isolate when that GTC spooled up. With how the tune is setup and hearing that little turbine go, it's basically spooled before you touch the go pedal!

S7 vs VNT17

I have put this to the test. With very similar ALHs. They both max out around 170whp. The S7 spools about 400RPMs sooner, but drops off quickly in the higher RPMs where as the VNT17 goes further in the RPMs.

I have some info here with dyno sheets.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=489446