WMO as diesel fuel

kitambi

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Duluth, GA, USA
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Cool! Let me know when your engine blows up so that I can point, laugh, and mock accordingly.

Cheers!
 

burpod

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this belongs in the ontario forum
 

philngrayce

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Steve, pay no attention to the naysayers. Please let us know how it works.
 

Diesel_Benz

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Well lets see... its illegal, very harmful to the environment, harmful to your engine and engine oil has additives specifically for preventing combustion.

But what the hey, you can't contaminate your engine oil with unburnt fuel when the fuel is engine oil! :rolleyes:
 

davinci

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Location
France
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Allroad 2.5 TDI 180
kitambi said:
Cool! Let me know when your engine blows up so that I can point, laugh, and mock accordingly.

Cheers!
Hi I'm new on this forum and wanted to talk about my experiment as WVO-driver. I've been owning a "01 Allroad 2.5 TDI 180 for 4 years now and made some "research" on the web on how to drive with WVO and I got on a french site called olimobile.org (it has its English part) and found out how to make my own fuel home. I read for about 6 months and then started it. So far I've driven 24,900 miles (40,000 kms) with WVO, sometimes going WVO100 but strating WVO30. The only problem I've had is that the fuel filter got a little jammed as I'd never changed it !;) But no problem whatsoever with the engine, it runs smooth and it's a complete fuel economy ! No breaking down, nothing ! There's a way to do it. It takes some time but the result is here. The only time my filter got jammed was when I hadn't filtered it properly, but no hassle ! I'm not pushing anyone to do it but trust me, it works, it's green and cheap too !
 

T'sTDI

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Location
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davinci said:
Hi I'm new on this forum and wanted to talk about my experiment as WVO-driver. I've been owning a "01 Allroad 2.5 TDI 180 for 4 years now and made some "research" on the web on how to drive with WVO and I got on a french site called olimobile.org (it has its English part) and found out how to make my own fuel home. I read for about 6 months and then started it. So far I've driven 24,900 miles (40,000 kms) with WVO, sometimes going WVO100 but strating WVO30. The only problem I've had is that the fuel filter got a little jammed as I'd never changed it !;) But no problem whatsoever with the engine, it runs smooth and it's a complete fuel economy ! No breaking down, nothing ! There's a way to do it. It takes some time but the result is here. The only time my filter got jammed was when I hadn't filtered it properly, but no hassle ! I'm not pushing anyone to do it but trust me, it works, it's green and cheap too !
Speaking as an advocate for alternative fuels as I burn VO myself, I applaud your efforts. To be fair though, diesels will burn just about any oil derived source out there. If it has a certain BTU value and has an ignition temperature of that in the realms of what an internal combustion chamber runs at, chances are it will run on the fuel just fine.

I really question motor oil being green because I doubt there is anything green about it other than your saving diesel fuel. Cars that burn their own motor oil smell like hell and is a terrible exhaust fume to smell, probably very bad to smell as well.

Your certainly not the first person thats ever tried WMO as I know of a person who does it in an old merc, maybe the first on a TDI. The only thing that I would point out is your filtering habits need to be top notch because you need to remove the very fine pieces of metal that are present in used motor oil from being used in an engine.

My first choice would be used VO but MO still works, probably works damn fine too ;)
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
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Besides the sub-micron suspended metal particles in used motor oil, it is also full of combustion acids, oxidized additives, water emulsions, carbon, etc, all kinds of impurities that will not filter out.

When all the debris and impurities abrade the injection pump and injector internals, make sure to post the pics.

:rolleyes:
 

grizzlydiesel

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Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Location
Virginia, USA
TDI
2000 Jetta 5 speed
just to clarify, as there seems to be some confusion in the above posts.....

WMO = the thick black goo that comes out of your drainplug on your oil pan. AKA Waste Motor Oil.

WVO = the thick brown goo that comes out of chinese retsurants and deep friers. AKA Waste Vegitable Oil.

Not many condone the burning of either. but there are many who do. Lots of "Stupid Duty" drivers run ATF mixed with their diesel oil.

Pretty much there are many many fuels that will burn in a diesel engine, but its a question of how long the engine will survive with said fuel. And the questionable morality of saving a few bucks on fuel while choking the life out of the environment.

Ill give you the benifit of the doubt, and read your blog to see if youre doing something right, but otherwise, ive half a mind to report you to the authorities if youre driving that thing on the road. at least if youre here in the states, if memory serves (cant see the sig while posting) your a canuk.

EDIT - for the record, i run B20 in both my vehicles, and would run higher levels if it were available. I am also a proponent of domestic biodiesel, and the furthering progress of Algae diesel and fourth gen fuels.
 
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VeeDubTDI

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Interesting thread. Good luck with your efforts!

A few questions for you...

  1. How many miles are on your engine?
  2. For how many miles have you been using WMO?
  3. How frequently do you change your oil?
  4. Do you use any special additives in your "fuel"?
 

VeeDubTDI

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Also, I have those same wheels on my 1991 Jetta! :eek:
 
Joined
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Location
San Jose, CA
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Wmo Wto

Subscribed as well. I set up a couple systems down @ school for researching purposes, definitely NOT on road applications. We converted a 7.3 powerjoke to run on waste veggie that was quadruple filtered, washed, and pre-heated. Cost less than $100 and still went through fuel filters like crazy. My instructor had 5 MB's that he ran on road with separate veggie and dino-diesel tanks and switched between the two. We started a used trannie oil project on the stuper-duty but I graduated before I could see the results....it was a cool setup, I would never run it on the road though. Bio is the way to go (especially from Algae) and I'm eager to see where cellulostic ethanol takes off to. I'm going to try and contact my professor and see what the results of the WTO tests were....bet he's still chugging along on over 500k miles on veggie. Good luck to you, I would def do a mix with dino diesel, send your fuel to blackstone, and check the cetane rating.
 

Powder Hound

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grizzlydiesel said:
...

WMO = the thick black goo that comes out of your drainplug on your oil pan. AKA Waste Motor Oil.

...
Mine's black, but I don't wait so long before changing it that it becomes 'thick', although, I'll grant that it is an imprecise definition since each of us has their own.
 

grizzlydiesel

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Location
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TDI
2000 Jetta 5 speed
Powder Hound said:
Mine's black, but I don't wait so long before changing it that it becomes 'thick', although, I'll grant that it is an imprecise definition since each of us has their own.
well spoke, i was actually just going for the symmitry of comparing the two waste oils and slight differences between which way youd like to kill your engine. But you are correct, engine oil is rarely thick when changed on the propor interval. but then again, even "clean" WVO is relatively thin, its the waxes and goup that is the thick part.
 

uncah91

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Location
Durham, NC
TDI
2000 VW Golf
skeptical

Just taking Motor Oil, filtering it and running it as a fuel seems like a BAAAAADDD idea.

If that is in the tank when I go for emissions testing, will I pass? It seems unlikely.

If you blow the motor, well, so what? But if make acid rain ... I'm not so much for it.

Someone would have to educate me otherwise.

What HAPPENS to used motor oil anyway? (Normally, I mean)
 

tntoskey

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Location
so ca
TDI
2003jetta,silver2000 beetle..bolth sold now 2002 jetta auto
I did it

I have gon about 40k on wmo..not in my jetta but in a 5.9 cummings
in the summer I can run it stright once it is below 40 or so I do about 20 percent Diesel..works great no truble..after I pick it up it is filtered 4 times
before it hits the truck...I have thought of doing it in the jetta
but have not yet..I guess mainly no place for the extra tank.
 

T'sTDI

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Location
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2001 Jetta
davinci said:
I'm using Waste VEGETABLE Oil (WVO) and it takes some time to get the best of it but I manage to, being very patient on the refining part. And finishing the whole lot up through a 1 micron filter. No heating of the oil as the dirt would melt and go through the filter. I filter it when cold, never hot. The biggest part is getting it through a "water filter" which captures the sugar and salt in it and dirt too.:eek: That's why I'm saying Green, it's because it's restaurant waste Vegetable oil, I buy none or use no Motor Oil, never !
I apologize, I worte to fast and thought you were the OP. :D
 

VeeDubTDI

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tntoskey said:
I have gon about 40k on wmo..not in my jetta but in a 5.9 cummings
in the summer I can run it stright once it is below 40 or so I do about 20 percent Diesel..works great no truble..after I pick it up it is filtered 4 times
before it hits the truck...I have thought of doing it in the jetta
but have not yet..I guess mainly no place for the extra tank.
Not to pick nits or anything, but when you misspell the name of your engine, I have to wonder what oversights you make when you filter your oil. It's a Cummins. ;)
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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Location
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TDI
davinci said:
I'm using Waste VEGETABLE Oil (WVO)
This thread is about Waste MOTOR Oil, therefore your posts are out of place here. Your posts can and should be moved into a new separate thread to continue discussion on your experience with WVO.
 

Diesel_Benz

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uncah91 said:
What HAPPENS to used motor oil anyway? (Normally, I mean)
Depends on what company hauls it and who their customers are. It can be burned in a heat furnace or power station, used as fuel for ocean ships or even "refined" and resold as engine oil (Pennzoil). There are many many different good uses for used engine oil. Fuel for somebody's diesel car is not among them.
 

uncah91

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WMO uses

It can be burned in a heat furnace or power station, used as fuel for ocean ships
Hmm, at first blush, it doesn't seem like these kinds of fuel uses would be any better than burning it in a car. I wonder what kind of emissions controls there are on ocean going vessels? I'm guessing not many.

Of course, that doesn't make running it in your car "green". Not my cup-of-tea, as they say.

So then running WMO would be about the economics of it. Which would go back to what kind of effect it has on the engine, fuel system, exhaust system, etc.

To the OP, educate us a little on these issues. Throw up some links that you found useful.
 

grizzlydiesel

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the economics of it depend greatly on your situation..... to me its a cost to benifit senario.....

I drive worst case senario, 12,000 miles per year. at my average daily 44mpg thats 272.72 gallons per year, lets say worst case for this year, its $3 per gallon, so i spend roughly $820 per year on fuel. (rounded UP from $818 and change)

So running the waste oil would save me $820 a year..... thats not counting the investement in materials to collect, store, filter, and prep the WMO to run in my car (which i would never do).

As to the benifit....... thats the only one i can possibly think of.

a new injection pump alone is over $1000 dollars. a blown engine, probably between $2000 and $4000. If you cant do the repair work yourself and have to pay someone else to do it, its an hourly repair bill of at least $100 per hour, swapping an engine per the dealership book is most likely around a 10 hour job. swapping the injection pump is also probably a few hours worth of work.

Then lets look at the environmental impact of running the fuel, im not even going to get into the emissions, thats just a karma thing, lets keep focused on the economic sense of running the WMO.

Legal issues, while i dont know the exact amount, im sure there is quite a stiff fine for running unaproved fuels on highways here in the states. so youd have to look at those fines as well.

And from an economic standpoint..... I like that im supporting the manufacture of biodiesel, i dont even mind so much that the price recently jumped to $3.00 per gallon ($2.99). Im helping the local economy, im doing something good for the environment, and spending less than $70 per month to do it.

Youre also messing with someone elses income, the guys that recycle the oil, they gotta make a living too, by burning up their supply, they cant sell it and provide for themselves.

So even from an economic standpoint (let alone environmental) it just dosnt make sense. saving roughly $820 a year, even assuming all that gets fragged is the injection pump, youd have to get over a year of trouble free service, maybe 15,000 miles worth to justify burning the hexxus juice, which i just dont see happening. at the very least, its no where near worth the risk IMHO. And remember, thats just to BREAK EVEN. So all the benifit of saving money on fuel would go to repair the blown parts. You dont benifit, and everyone else suffers. Not exactly an attractive deal to me.

As to tntoskey - in your cummins, have you had it torn down and inspected to verify this "no problems" statement? Just cuz an engine keeps running dosnt mean it has no problems. not saying youre wrong, just curious.
 
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Diesel_Benz

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uncah91 said:
Hmm, at first blush, it doesn't seem like these kinds of fuel uses would be any better than burning it in a car. I wonder what kind of emissions controls there are on ocean going vessels? I'm guessing not many.
The MAJOR difference is they are designed to burn waste oils.
 

T'sTDI

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Location
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2001 Jetta
grizzlydiesel said:
the economics of it depend greatly on your situation..... to me its a cost to benifit senario.....

I drive worst case senario, 12,000 miles per year. at my average daily 44mpg thats 272.72 gallons per year, lets say worst case for this year, its $3 per gallon, so i spend roughly $820 per year on fuel. (rounded UP from $818 and change)

So running the waste oil would save me $820 a year..... thats not counting the investement in materials to collect, store, filter, and prep the WMO to run in my car (which i would never do).

As to the benifit....... thats the only one i can possibly think of.

a new injection pump alone is over $1000 dollars. a blown engine, probably between $2000 and $4000. If you cant do the repair work yourself and have to pay someone else to do it, its an hourly repair bill of at least $100 per hour, swapping an engine per the dealership book is most likely around a 10 hour job. swapping the injection pump is also probably a few hours worth of work.

Then lets look at the environmental impact of running the fuel, im not even going to get into the emissions, thats just a karma thing, lets keep focused on the economic sense of running the WMO.

Legal issues, while i dont know the exact amount, im sure there is quite a stiff fine for running unaproved fuels on highways here in the states. so youd have to look at those fines as well.

And from an economic standpoint..... I like that im supporting the manufacture of biodiesel, i dont even mind so much that the price recently jumped to $3.00 per gallon ($2.99). Im helping the local economy, im doing something good for the environment, and spending less than $70 per month to do it.

Youre also messing with someone elses income, the guys that recycle the oil, they gotta make a living too, by burning up their supply, they cant sell it and provide for themselves.

So even from an economic standpoint (let alone environmental) it just dosnt make sense. saving roughly $820 a year, even assuming all that gets fragged is the injection pump, youd have to get over a year of trouble free service, maybe 15,000 miles worth to justify burning the hexxus juice, which i just dont see happening. at the very least, its no where near worth the risk IMHO. And remember, thats just to BREAK EVEN. So all the benifit of saving money on fuel would go to repair the blown parts. You dont benifit, and everyone else suffers. Not exactly an attractive deal to me.

Sigh here we go again....:rolleyes:
 
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