www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs

VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs This is a discussion about MKIII-A3/MkIII Jetta/Golf (<99.5) and B4 Passats (96,97) TDI's. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 7th, 2009, 22:10   #1
macinco
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora CO
Fuel Economy: 45-50 mpg
Default 96 VR6 starter/alternator fit/use in 96 B4V TDI?

(it actually gonna be a swap /conversion of a 96 B4 1Z into a 96 B4V VR6). (it'll be sweet)

I am wondering if when i pull/sell the VR6 motor (which is gonna be soon), should I keep/would I be able to use (spare or whatever), the starter and/or alternator? (two somewhat key pieces to consider when selling/buying)

Thanks in advance for any experiences/advice.

Mark
__________________
97 B4 Sedan and a fresh new 96 B4 Sedan "project car"
macinco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2009, 08:20   #2
Greaseburger
Veteran Member
 
Greaseburger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Swanzey,NH
Fuel Economy: Best of 53.8
Default

Lug_Nut should be able to answer that one or look up the parts for both and compare part numbers
__________________
99.5 Jetta, RC3,Veg .216, Omi,Bilstein Tc sport 2 1/2''Exh no cat,no muff,Longbeach,Euroswitch,fogs front&RearDepo HL


Greaseburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2009, 12:40   #3
TonyJetta
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson, Az
Fuel Economy: A5: 36mpg Avg / A6: 39
Default

IIRC, lug_nut has done one or two of these swaps. Send him a PM.

Tony
__________________
Diesel fleet: 2015 Jetta TDI SE DSG; 2006 Jetta, TDI, DSG-5sp Conversion; 2006 DC Cummins, CC/LB/DRW; 1996 Passat TDI, 5sp, Project car! Troubleshooting Links: Trusted TDI Mechanics IP Timing Timing Belt FAQ A3/B4 Low Power Cyl Head Repair Fault Codes What you have just read is an opinion...take it as you see fit!
TonyJetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2009, 18:06   #4
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast
Pre-Forum Veteran Member
 
Lug_Nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
Default

The VR6 and TDI (and AAZ, too) use the same starter motor part number for manual transmission cars.

The alternators use different numbers. The 120 amp Bosch alternator for the TDI is 028 903 018 B. The 120 Bosch for the 1995 and on VR6 is 028 903 018 C. That might be as minor as a terminal nut threading, or could be a pulley diameter difference.
Up to 1995 the VR6 and AAZ used the same number with an A suffix, so I think any difference between a B and C is probably minor.

Me? I'd sell the VR6 engine and transmission (with starter and alternator) as a complete, running package. Buy a replacement if ever the TDI stuff fails.
__________________
If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

Svante Arrhenius 1896

Cogito ergo soy (I think, therefore: Biodiesel)
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2009, 18:40   #5
compu_85
Gadget Guy
 
compu_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Springfield VA
Default

I believe the VR6 alt spins the wrong way compared to a TDI one.

-Jason
__________________
Present:
2013 Fiat 500e. 22,000 miles.
2014 Cadillac ELR. 23,000 miles.
2012 Passat SE TDI DSG. 112,000 miles. Factory Alarm, LED tails, Memory Seat, HIDs 38/48 MPG. Buy it from us!
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 165,000 miles.
99.5 Jetta "GLX" TDI. 310,000 miles. Half way there!!! Power Memory Seats, HIDs 11mm pump, BV39 Turbo, RCIII 36/47 MPG.
1991 Mercedes 350SDL 230,000 miles, 70,000 on engine. 18/27 MPG.
Past:
1988 Audi 5000S Quattro, 1992 Jetta ECOdiesel, 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel.

Check out the official TDIClub Chat Room!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
compu_85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2009, 08:51   #6
macinco
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora CO
Fuel Economy: 45-50 mpg
Default

Well thanks for the info guys.....The problem with selling the motor/tranny/etc as a "package deal" Is that the automtic tranny is kaput (run it through all the gears, and it just really doesn't try to move the car much at all). If is tranny did work, it would be a really attractive package for someone for a VR6 conversion. I have a guy i think that just wants the motor.

I was hoping that 120 alternater could be usable, but if it spins the wrong way... well......

Sounds like the starter mught be worth keeping though, maybe just need to change the gears to work in a TDI.

I dunno though, I think I should probably just send/sell the starter/alt with the motor.
__________________
97 B4 Sedan and a fresh new 96 B4 Sedan "project car"
macinco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2009, 14:21   #7
sassyrel
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: aplington,iowa
Fuel Economy: 55-60
Default

SAME ALT--the ONLY diff is the pulley--which a impact gun properly used will solve fast!!!! have done this twice already--
__________________
96 passat wagon- black---438,387 --!!!! out of commission now!! walts ccv, and gregs cat filter--burnin the bean----------96 passat wagon--green--rebuilt--222,368 miles--dang near new!!!!!!!!! gregs cat---just got another wagon,white,smacked-will fix!!
sassyrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2009, 14:36   #8
compu_85
Gadget Guy
 
compu_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Springfield VA
Default

Oh, well that's good to know! I do know the 120A A3 TDI alt is interchangeable with a 90 amp mk4 2.0 alt, you just swap the pulley.

-J
compu_85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2009, 17:24   #9
sassyrel
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: aplington,iowa
Fuel Economy: 55-60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85
I believe the VR6 alt spins the wrong way compared to a TDI one.

-Jason
nope--see upper post
__________________
96 passat wagon- black---438,387 --!!!! out of commission now!! walts ccv, and gregs cat filter--burnin the bean----------96 passat wagon--green--rebuilt--222,368 miles--dang near new!!!!!!!!! gregs cat---just got another wagon,white,smacked-will fix!!
sassyrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2009, 20:37   #10
macinco
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora CO
Fuel Economy: 45-50 mpg
Default

Well, sounds like both the starter and alternator are definately keepers then (swap pulley on the alternator and I will have 120 amp alt).


Lug Nut... you said the starter "motor"(s) had the same part numbers.....does that mean I can just bolt it and and it is the same? Or would I need to change some gears or something to make it work/the same as a TDI starter?

Geez... thanks so far folks!
__________________
97 B4 Sedan and a fresh new 96 B4 Sedan "project car"
macinco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2009, 05:37   #11
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast
Pre-Forum Veteran Member
 
Lug_Nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
Default

All the other VW parts, with a part number for part number match, have been direct R&R bolt-ons. I'd be shocked if part number xyz couldn't replace part number xyz.
What I mean is: I have not personally replaced a 1Z starter motor with an AAA starter motor, but I truly expect that I could.
What I also mean is that: I've not had to replace a 1Z starter motor because one failed to operate. I did replace the smashed one when I transplanted the red wagon engine, but that wasn't an 'operational' failure.
Sell the starter.
__________________
If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

Svante Arrhenius 1896

Cogito ergo soy (I think, therefore: Biodiesel)
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2009, 18:27   #12
sassyrel
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: aplington,iowa
Fuel Economy: 55-60
Default

well,the black tdi we had at first--the starter died at 338,000. dang thing!! the green one driving now--has been not quite bad since the day i got it back together and i have one in the car to replace it,before winter!! 237,000. course if it was a american car--id probalby replaced them already, at prob less than 150,000!!!!
__________________
96 passat wagon- black---438,387 --!!!! out of commission now!! walts ccv, and gregs cat filter--burnin the bean----------96 passat wagon--green--rebuilt--222,368 miles--dang near new!!!!!!!!! gregs cat---just got another wagon,white,smacked-will fix!!
sassyrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2018, 18:14   #13
gfnetadmin
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ledgedale, PA
TDI(s): 97 Passat
Default

Reviving this older thread, hoping that maybe others have used a B4 VR6 120A alternator on their TDI's since the start of this conversation back in '09. Driving home tonight with temps in the single digits, found myself in need of a new alternator. Having a B4 VR6 (manual trans) alternator in hand, I was hoping I could use this one until I can get another replacement or rebuild the TDI alternator.

From what I can see, only difference is the pulley, VR6 pulley is slightly wider. Both are Bosch 14V/120A, same electrical connections, cases look exactly the same.

The numbers on the TDI alternator - 0 123 505 011 and 028 903 025 S, numbers from the VR6 - 0 123 510 007 and 021 903 025 G.
gfnetadmin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2018, 12:04   #14
turbodieseldyke
Veteran Member
 
turbodieseldyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Free Mustache Rides
TDI(s): 98 jetta
Fuel Economy: 50
Default

If you're lucky, you can just swap the voltage regulator, instead of the whole alt.
turbodieseldyke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th, 2018, 06:16   #15
0die
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: corpus christi, tx
Default

does it make a difference if an alternator spun backwards? I thought an alternator or generator would create the correct current/voltage/polarity/whatever regardless of the direction you spin it.

now the thread direction on the shaft might be an issue....with the nut working loose over time
__________________
1996 Passat wagon TDI
assorted gas powered crap and motorcycles
RIP...countless Mercedes, Isuzu and other random diesels
0die is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.16077 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 124.64 Kb. compressed to 103.49 Kb. by saving 21.16 Kb. (16.97%)]