Pp520 vs sprint 520

50harleyrider

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I finally got my sprint 520s installed and have done some testing. I'm getting about 3 MPGs better with them and a quicker cold weather start. The PP520 car does have a little more pull in the higher RPM range (2500-4000) but both cars feel strong so I'm leaning toward the Sprints for my RC2 tune which is exactly what Jeff Robertson told me. The PP520s probably would be best for an RC3 or 4 tune but I'm not ready for the turbo upgrade yet. One thing I have noticed is that both cars are giving me shudder at arround 1800 RPM in 5th. I have the IQ at 6 on both so need some advice on what else to check. The timing is at 60 on both cars too. I didn't notice this in warm weather so it just may be the winter fuel causing it.
 

50harleyrider

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I have seen this thread and really don't want to make wiring changes if I can avoid it. Is your car OK now and if so, what was the fix? Fuel pump delivery sounds interesting as the IQ changes don't really help much. There were so many posts on the thread you are referencing, I'm a little confused. My shuddering occurs from 1500-1800 and goes away when I pedal down but is intolerable at part throttle under slight load. All my sensors appear to be funtioning properly. I am running .622 gears in both cars so probably I just need to use 4th more in town between 45 and 60 mph and keep the revs above 1800. I find these TDIs perform their best cruising between 1800 and 2400 stock or otherwise.
 
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Abacus

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My shuddering occurs from 1500-1800 and goes away when I pedal down but is intolerable at part throttle under slight load. All my sensors appear to be funtioning properly. I am running .622 gears in both cars so probably I just need to use 4th more in town between 45 and 60 mph and keep the revs above 1800. I find these TDIs perform their best cruising between 1800 and 2400 stock or otherwise.
I have the stock gearing, same setup, and similar symptoms. Mine shudders around 1600 to 1700 rpm's, and I keep them higher to avoid the shudder.

I am also hesitant to cut into the wiring system or bypass anything and am hoping for a true fix and not a temporary one.
 

GTiTDi

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I don't have the stutter now because I disconnected the VSS reference signal to the ecu. I didn't have to cut anything, I unplugged one of the blue and white wires at the TV connector above the fuse panel. When I get around to it I will connect a relay to make the connection when the cruise is switched on.

I have been discussing/brainstorming this problem with some other TDI club members and the general concensus so far is that VSS is monitored by the ecu to determine the load and that the aftermarket chip tuners missed this. It seems that this is a standard issue with RC chip tuned 1z/auh's.
 

50harleyrider

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I don't have the stutter now because I disconnected the VSS reference signal to the ecu. I didn't have to cut anything, I unplugged one of the blue and white wires at the TV connector above the fuse panel. When I get around to it I will connect a relay to make the connection when the cruise is switched on.

I have been discussing/brainstorming this problem with some other TDI club members and the general concensus so far is that VSS is monitored by the ecu to determine the load and that the aftermarket chip tuners missed this. It seems that this is a standard issue with RC chip tuned 1z/auh's.
Sure sounds like we all have the same issue. I use my cruise all the time on my twice weekly 250 mile commutes so don't want to give it up. I will try the disconnect you're talking about to see if it fixes mine. When you have it all figured out, please make a diagram to show us what to do. What is the "TV" connector and what does it look like? Do I have to drop the fuse panel down to access it? I was going to get into there anyhow to wire my keyless white Jetta module up. Hopefully the chip tuners monitor this thread and will come up with a fix. It would be worth sending the ECU in for a fix.
 
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GTiTDi

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The colorful junction blocks at the top of the relay panel are TV connectors. They basically make connections that aren't available in the relay panel.

I thought the one I disconnected was blue with a white stripe which aren't shown in this picture, which btw is from G60ing. thanks for the use of your picture Frank.
 

50harleyrider

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So I can pull the wire out and reinsert it later without damaging anything? As for the cruise relay you plan to add, wouldn't the stutter reappear as soon as you activate cruise at the problem RPM since the ECU needs the VSS to control cruise? If that is the case do you plan to only use cruise above the problem RPM?
 
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john.jackson9213

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,622 fifth gear and also find "issues" running at 1500 or so. I use a stage 3 TD Tuning and run a 20 psi boost max. But I have/had a bad fuel injection pump that just got swapped for a used one as I flew out of town for work. Have not driven the car since the pump swap. But no issues with cruise control being used. Just the car does not want to run/pull well at 1500 or less rpm.
 
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50harleyrider

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I won't even attempt running mine at 1500 or less. From other posts I've read and even when mine was stock, it felt like it was straining at 1500 or less in 5th. But it sure shouldn't shudder at 1800 in 5th with only a slight load. I'm curious how GTITDIs fix works out when he jumpers the CC with the VSS disconnected. My guess is the cruise will only be useful above 1800 which is OK since I don't use it arround town anyway.
 
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GTiTDi

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I won't even attempt running mine at 1500 or less. From other posts I've read and even when mine was stock, it felt like it was straining at 1500 or less in 5th. But it sure shouldn't shudder at 1800 in 5th with only a slight load. I'm curious how GTITDIs fix works out when he jumpers the CC with the VSS disconnected. My guess is the cruise will only be useful above 1800 which is OK since I don't use it arround town anyway.
my VSS is connected at the transaxle, I have a working speedo. Once again I disconnected the VSS wire at the TV connector above the relay panel which is merely the reference signal to the ECU for the cruise control, so I currently don't have functioning cruise control. No stutter.

big Garnie dog, what tune are you running? If stock tune that is probably why you don't have a stutter. Obviously that seems to be the common denominator.
 

thebigarniedog

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Fail Command (Central Ohio)
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1998 Jetta tdi
my VSS is connected at the transaxle, I have a working speedo. Once again I disconnected the VSS wire at the TV connector above the relay panel which is merely the reference signal to the ECU for the cruise control, so I currently don't have functioning cruise control. No stutter.

big Garnie dog, what tune are you running? If stock tune that is probably why you don't have a stutter. Obviously that seems to be the common denominator.
Yep.....stock tune.
 

Digital Corpus

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That's not shudder. That's lugging. In 4th and 5th you are in 'overdrive'. Around 1750-1800 is the lowest you can go in either gear and the engine is struggling a bit to keep on power while spinning too slowly.

If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me, but from my research here on the club about shift points and how the engine feels. With the vibration being characteristic of lugging when in 1st-3rd but extending to a slightly RPM range makes sense since the gearing in 4th and 5 puts the engine at a mechanical disadvantage.
 

GTiTDi

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That's not shudder. That's lugging. In 4th and 5th you are in 'overdrive'. Around 1750-1800 is the lowest you can go in either gear and the engine is struggling a bit to keep on power while spinning too slowly.

If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me, but from my research here on the club about shift points and how the engine feels. With the vibration being characteristic of lugging when in 1st-3rd but extending to a slightly RPM range makes sense since the gearing in 4th and 5 puts the engine at a mechanical disadvantage.
Interesting I guess those who are experiencing this problem must not know how to drive, or tell the difference between a lugging engine and one that isn't running smoothly! I guess the sensation I noticed after making certain modifications must be a figment of my imagination, and everyone else with the same symptoms is purely coincidental! Thank you for your enlightening observation!
 

TonyJetta

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Hmm...I've been running a Malone stage II for 2 months now, and see no issues. Is this issue related only to '97 B4/A3's?

Tony
 

Digital Corpus

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One of the posters in this thread is known to lug his engine. Having been in in a car with a shudder and knowing where the engines lug, I'm familiar with the problem. I've also been running sprint 520s since I bought the car, I have a stock tune, I have anothe B4 that is bone stock, and have a friend close by with a highly modified B4. Please debunk and not just sarcastically respond. I even added that I'm open to being corrected.
 

DasTeknoViking

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I run a custom TDT 3+ stage on my 96 with Bosio DLC1019 nozzles with higher pop pressure specs for power. I can lug the motor down to IDLE in 5th and at part throttle she powers away like nothing is happening. I had 4 big guys in my car coming in from lunch back to the shop and did that test then showing off "stomp pulling power" to my Honda buds. I don't lug the motor around much if at all but I have zero shutter, just your normal "resonating" around 1900-2000RPM in every gear at any throttle input. I think its my Miltek downpipe that resonates. I have stock gearing for now.
 

Seatman

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I've seen on here before that when down in the lower revs in say 5th gear and you accelerate, if you get a shudder it could be the dmf causing it.
I don't know but I'm running the pp764's and don't get any shudder myself with the IQ set around 6. I'll have to wait and see how it goes when I get the tune on it though.
 

tdidieselbobny

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I had the same shudder in my 98 Jetta w/ RC2 and PP520's....right now my B4 has Sprint 520's,no tune-no shudder. I plan on going to PP520's and an RC2 tune sometime this year.We'll see if the car develops shudder afterwards...... it didn't bother me too much on the 98.
 

GTiTDi

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I've seen on here before that when down in the lower revs in say 5th gear and you accelerate, if you get a shudder it could be the dmf causing it.
I don't know but I'm running the pp764's and don't get any shudder myself with the IQ set around 6. I'll have to wait and see how it goes when I get the tune on it though.
The cars we are talking about do not have DMF's.

The common factors seem to be

-1Z or AHU
-upgraded nozzles
-RC chip tune of 2 or higher
-1600 rpm's +/-
-5th gear

I am sure the OP would appreciate helpful, concise ideas/ possible reasons...Answers pointing directly to operator error are not. If one doesn't have the same combination of modifications and symptoms how can their comment be of any substance? :rolleyes:
 

DasTeknoViking

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local guy I know whos on this site... had a bad shutter on his RC6 Jetta and when he switched to TDT the shutter went away and the car picked up over 10MPG and didn't smoke like a old locomotive.

I got my IQ at 5 per TDT and I am very happy with my tune. Boost comes on around 1400RPM with a GT1749VB
 

Seatman

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OP Have you still got your egr? I just remembered my ALH was having a similar issue but I disconnected the egr vac pipe and plugged it, the car now runs really smooth. I don't know if it's the same on the Mk3 though.
 

50harleyrider

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I don't have the stutter now because I disconnected the VSS reference signal to the ecu. I didn't have to cut anything, I unplugged one of the blue and white wires at the TV connector above the fuse panel. When I get around to it I will connect a relay to make the connection when the cruise is switched on.

I have been discussing/brainstorming this problem with some other TDI club members and the general concensus so far is that VSS is monitored by the ecu to determine the load and that the aftermarket chip tuners missed this. It seems that this is a standard issue with RC chip tuned 1z/auh's.
Still curious about your fix GTITDI and what will happen when you get your cruise reconnected.
Thanks for all the input guys as I know how annoying this problem is. It definitely looks like a Rocketchip issue and nothing to do with nozzles alone but I like the way my thread is running anyhow. My bet is we'll have to quit running 5th below 1800 with load regardless of gearing when we're RC'd and nozzled. I'll PM Jeff and see if he will post or at least tell me if he needs any logs to help us diagnose and fix this problem.
 
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Abacus

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Sweet, thanks 50. I would be interested in hearing what he has to say. Just keep in mind you may have to call since he is hard to get in touch with.

Seatman, my EGR is nonfunctioning and blocked as well, but the issue still persists.
 

50harleyrider

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One of my cars has the EGR block plate-one does not. Same shudder on both cars. Until we hear from Jeff, let's all do some logs at the trouble speed for MAF,MAP and IQ and any others we can think of. There's got to be enough experience and expertise among us to figure this out. The log periods don't have to be long 'cause none of us like putting our babies through it...
 
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Yblocker

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Oakland, CA
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1997 Passat
I had an opportunity to test this today on the freeway during my shakedown run for my new clutch. I wound up behind a slow car doing about 40 on a uniformly moderate grade. I thought of this thread so I held behind him in 5th for a few seconds, then went to pass, pushing to about 1/2 pedal. I could not detect a shudder or poor running. Car has RC-2 and titan 502's.
 
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