Write Off?

TDIBone · Jul 21, 2017

2004 Golf TDI, now pushing 303,000 KMs. Just hit a manhole cover that had come out of it's base and took out the oil pan. Shut off right away. Think they will write it off?

steve6 · Jul 21, 2017

Depends on the damage, a shop not knowing any better will change oil pan without assuming any engine or turbo damage.. and you didn't really say if there was any body damage

BobnOH · Jul 21, 2017

If it's just the oil pan and you shut it down fairly quickly, I wouldn't hesitate to slap on a new pan and drive on. Gotta get under it and assess the damage.
Depending on the type coverage you have, they very well may total it.

TDIBone · Jul 21, 2017

I guess I should say I left a trail of oil for about 50 yards until I could pull over and then shut off, but there was still lots of oil coming out. As for other damage, I saw a crack in the trim along the lower lip, but we'll see what the estimator says.

BobnOH · Jul 21, 2017

Others may (will) disagree, but I see no way that would trash the motor.

casey823 · Jul 21, 2017

Insurance will definitely total it out, I have seen a lot of cars at the insurance auction with holes in oil pans. I have bought a few and have been 100% successful so far with throwing on a new pan and motoring on... If you can buy it back I wouldnt hesitate in throwing on a new pan and continue driving it.

Nevada_TDI · Jul 23, 2017

You don't mention the oil pressure light came on, and you weren't at a high load condition at the time; I would re-pan it and keep driving.

ffemtp · Jul 23, 2017

BobnOH said:
Others may (will) disagree, but I see no way that would trash the motor.

100% agree with Bob.

While you are under the car I'd suggest doing a good inspection of the transmission pan - you did not say if you have an automatic or a 5 speed. In either case check the pan and make sure there are no issues.

Tdijarhead · Jul 23, 2017

I put a hole in my 2000 Golf oil pan that I could put my finger through. It left a 50yd trail of oil also. Put a new pan on and drove it another 100k miles till the auto tranny gave up the ghost.

$65 or so for a new pan and 1 hour or so of work.

gatz · Jul 23, 2017

Put a new pan on and cancel the insurance claim. Job probably costs less than your deductible anyway.

TDIBone · Aug 1, 2017

Well, insurance says they are writing it off. Repair estimate is (CDN) $1700 parts and $1400 labour. I haven't looked at the car myself yet, but in addition to oil pan, there is mention of muffler, floor pan, engine cover.

My deductible is $500 which the city may or may not cover.

No emotional attachment per se, but I'd really rather not be out money for replacing the car right now. We'll see what they offer, but I'm sure it won't be replacement value. Autotrader shows 6 in Ontario with similar mileage, value $4250-$5290.

steve6 · Aug 1, 2017

well, they would use kijiji as well,

https://www.kijiji.ca/b-cars-trucks/ontario/2004-jetta-tdi/k0c174l9004

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks...el/1285661559?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks...di/1285867777?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks...an/1284072750?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks...ed/1285575284?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Tdijarhead · Aug 1, 2017

Wow someone is out to hose an insurance company.

Oil Pan http://www.idparts.com/aluminum-oil-pan-a4-p-638.html

Complete Exhaust, you probably don't need it all.
http://www.idparts.com/complete-exhaust-system-a4-p-5678.html

If you had had one of these instead of the plastic dust cover you wouldn't be talking about this today. Your experience is why I have one of these on my car.
http://www.dieselgeek.com/MK4_Jetta_Golf_New_Beetle_GTI_R32_skid_plate_p/pp-mk4.htm

As far as the floor pan, whats a dent no one can see? As long as it didn't punch a hole through the floor which a round cover probably wouldn't do anyway. If it did and the hole isn't to big get a $10 can of Bondo from Walmart and fill the hole in.

See if that's all there is it could be less than your deductible depending on how much of the exhaust you need to replace.

If you take the insurance money buy it back and sell it, provided it has the 5sp, probably not worth the effort on an auto.

casey823 · Aug 1, 2017

shops that are linked to these insurance companies are out to hose the insurance companies which means all of us are getting hosed in the process. I have seen so many cars that are crazy easy repairs that get totaled. Plastic $50 bumper covers etc... Almost every car I own has come from insurance auctions and all of them were minor repairs. There are cars that need to be totaled of course, but Id say close to 50 percent shouldnt be at the auction.

UhOh · Aug 1, 2017

Keep in mind that the OP is from Ontario, Canada.

Professional repair shops are just that, professional. They are unlikely going to just make something work. Very few places are willing and or capable of doing less than the maximum repairs. They have salaries and insurance to pay, and, usually, rent/mortgage on the shop.

TDIBone · Aug 2, 2017

Thanks everyone.

I looked on Kijiji as well and found pretty much the same cars were listed in both places. Looks like Golfs have more value than Jettas as far as the used market is concerned. Mine is an auto, BTW.

Shop in question is one of the approved partners of the ins. co. So less chance (note I didn't say none) they are hosing the ins co. However I need to talk to the shop and ask them what *really* needs to be done to make the car function.

BobnOH · Aug 2, 2017

You have done the proper estimate for your car value, comparables, that's what they use. Of course they'll try to low ball you some.
Not sure how a buy back works, but it sure sounds like a possible candidate. Do you end up with a regular title or savage?

steve6 · Aug 2, 2017

BobnOH said:
You have done the proper estimate for your car value, comparables, that's what they use. Of course they'll try to low ball you some.
Not sure how a buy back works, but it sure sounds like a possible candidate. Do you end up with a regular title or savage?

It should be salvage if done right, but not all insurance companies go through with the paper work.

When its an insurance job shops have to guarantee the work, so shops don't mess around, they buy OEM parts.. the exhaust is probably $1000 for the shop due to the downpipe and they probably quoted replacing it all/most of it just to cover their a$$...

If the OP is interested in keeping the vehicle he could settle, buy the car back and probably have a shop do the repairs for $1000. His insurance company would probably take off the Comprehensive coverage at that point.

BobnOH · Aug 2, 2017

steve6 said:
............................
When its an insurance job shops have to guarantee the work, so shops don't mess around, they buy OEM parts.. the exhaust is probably $1000 for the shop due to the downpipe and they probably quoted replacing it all/most of it just to cover their a$$...

If the OP is interested in keeping the vehicle he could settle, buy the car back and probably have a shop do the repairs for $1000. His insurance company would probably take off the Comprehensive coverage at that point.

Down here in the states they don't always do that. When having repairs done you often must hold their feet to the fire.
I still don't understand what happens when you buy it back after the insurer has totaled it. Can you do that with or without comprehensive?
And no joke, exhaust will be a grand with decent parts. But if just needs a muffler........$40

Genesis · Aug 2, 2017

BobnOH said:
Down here in the states they don't always do that. When having repairs done you often must hold their feet to the fire.
I still don't understand what happens when you buy it back after the insurer has totaled it. Can you do that with or without comprehensive?
And no joke, exhaust will be a grand with decent parts. But if just needs a muffler........$40

Yes.

Basically when the insurance company totals it they pay you the market value of the car at the time it was totaled (which they WILL argue over and you can and should argue with them over!) -- they now own the car.
Well, their book says it has a salvage value -- basically whatever the net they believe they can get for it in the condition it's in now. They will sell it back to you for that amount.

Now it's supposed to have the title branded ("Salvage") at that point, because it was totaled.

So let's say you and the insurance company settle on $5,000 for the value of the vehicle at the time it was totaled. They cut you a check for $5,000, you surrender the title to them and at that point they own the car.

They ALSO determine (on their own) that the salvage (parted-out, whatever) value of the vehicle now, in its present condition (and with a branded title), is $1,000. Sometimes you can argue (to a degree) with them over that value too, but usually not by much if at all -- since they determine that based on what they're pretty sure they can get from someone on the *low* end at an insurance auction. You can buy it back from them for that $1,000 and they'll transfer the (supposed to be branded) title back to you.

However, insurance companies will typically refuse to write comprehensive coverage (at all) on a branded title vehicle, and some will refuse to write collision coverage. In addition a branded title vehicle cannot be used for any sort of commercial service in most if not all states (in the US anyway).

Just keep in mind that from a market-value perspective a branded title vehicle is basically worthless irrespective of what you put into it down the road and it is also worthless for any purpose other than personal transportation.

BobnOH · Aug 2, 2017

Excellent explanation, thanks. [I had to look it up, Branded Title = Salvage]
So for a ride like this one, you wouldn't be getting (or wanting) comprehensive, but you certainly need liability in most or all states. Don't think it's much different in Ontario.

Genesis · Aug 2, 2017

BobnOH said:
Excellent explanation, thanks. [I had to look it up, Branded Title = Salvage]
So for a ride like this one, you wouldn't be getting (or wanting) comprehensive, but you certainly need collision in most or all states. Don't think it's much different in Ontario.

Huh?

Collision and comprehensive coverage have not been required as a matter of law anywhere I've ever lived in the US (several different states) nor does it make sense for it to be required. Both cover damage only to your car that can't be recovered from an at-fault driver because either (1) the incident didn't involve another driver or the at-fault driver had no or insufficient property damage coverage or (in the case of comprehensive) the incident didn't involve the vehicle being driven (e.g. theft, fire, etc.)

Typical required coverages in the US are for personal liability (harm to other persons), property damage liability (harm to someone else's stuff) and medical payments (typically but not always no-fault to some degree.) They call 'em different things in some states but that's what they are.

Now if you have a note on the car the BANK will usually require comprehensive and collision coverage as a covenant on the loan (to protect them to at least some degree if you wreck the car and have no money to pay the balance owed.)

steve6 · Aug 2, 2017

Genesis explains it well, its the same here in Ontario for the most part.

TDIBone · Aug 2, 2017

FYi in Ontario, a vehicle can be restored from salvage to rebuilt, but I can't speak for insurance.

Anyway, spoke to the garage that did the estimate and they basically backed up what you guys have said. A lot of the labour doesn't have to be done to get the car running. Mostly the oil pan and a cross-member. However... Once they got to a certain point they just stopped looking because they realized they had already hit the point where it would be declared total loss. So there might be "undiscovered" damage.

So I think at this point it's time to start shopping for a replacement. If anyone around Kitchener, ON is in to salvage and wants to PM me, I'll see if I can set you up.

casey823 · Aug 2, 2017

I dont see how you can say that a branded title car is worthless, I have fixed and sold a ton of branded cars and trucks and made money on them. Cars get branded for easy things such as bumper cover, fender etc...I never touch any frame issues, and I take pictures before and after and am upfront about every repair with the individual. I've never had an issue reselling these cars or having them come back on me.

Tdijarhead · Aug 2, 2017

casey823 said:
I dont see how you can say that a branded title car is worthless, I have fixed and sold a ton of branded cars and trucks and made money on them. Cars get branded for easy things such as bumper cover, fender etc...I never touch any frame issues, and I take pictures before and after and am upfront about every repair with the individual. I've never had an issue reselling these cars or having them come back on me.

Some folks won't touch a branded vehicle, I've had several, a friend of mine has never had anything but branded vehicles. He even bought a corvette that was sitting next to the road for sale and someone in a truck hit it. After the incident and the seller got the insurance payout my friend acquired it for a song.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend a branded car for everyone but if you do your own work and like a challenge.

TDIBone · Aug 11, 2017

So ins co finally reached me and I got them up to giving me $3000+tax value for the car. They say their valuation program looks in the local area for cars for sale, but I'll bet it doesn't discount the ones listed as "as is".

But get this, since they now gave me their offer, even though I didn't accept it, I only get my rental car for 4 more days before I have to return it.

Salvage value they said is $550. Title would be "unplated".

ffemtp · Aug 11, 2017

I'd make sure they are quoting for the correct model. GL vs GLS, Gas vs Diesel. They LOVE to conveniently choose the lower level vehicle, even though they have the VIN.

My car was hit from behind and was a total. Mine was a GLS Diesel. What did they quote me? Why, a GL Gas model, of course! Plus, they added an extra 2000 miles to the clock just for a bonus.

Check the quote they gave you, and ask for the sources they use. Do a bit of research. Negotiate with them. I am sure it works the same in Canada as in the US. They said they don't include sales tax. I said I would not be shopping for a car if I had not been hit. I got them to include sales tax.

I had a second vehicle, so I was willing to let it play out as long as it took.

Good luck!

\/\/0J0 · Aug 11, 2017

Genesis said:
Yes.

Basically when the insurance company totals it they pay you the market value of the car at the time it was totaled (which they WILL argue over and you can and should argue with them over!) -- they now own the car.
Well, their book says it has a salvage value -- basically whatever the net they believe they can get for it in the condition it's in now. They will sell it back to you for that amount.

Now it's supposed to have the title branded ("Salvage") at that point, because it was totaled.

So let's say you and the insurance company settle on $5,000 for the value of the vehicle at the time it was totaled. They cut you a check for $5,000, you surrender the title to them and at that point they own the car.

They ALSO determine (on their own) that the salvage (parted-out, whatever) value of the vehicle now, in its present condition (and with a branded title), is $1,000. Sometimes you can argue (to a degree) with them over that value too, but usually not by much if at all -- since they determine that based on what they're pretty sure they can get from someone on the *low* end at an insurance auction. You can buy it back from them for that $1,000 and they'll transfer the (supposed to be branded) title back to you.

However, insurance companies will typically refuse to write comprehensive coverage (at all) on a branded title vehicle, and some will refuse to write collision coverage. In addition a branded title vehicle cannot be used for any sort of commercial service in most if not all states (in the US anyway).

Just keep in mind that from a market-value perspective a branded title vehicle is basically worthless irrespective of what you put into it down the road and it is also worthless for any purpose other than personal transportation.

This is mostly accurate but the branded title bit differs from state to state and with age of the vehicle. For instance, in Tennessee, my golf was smashed up twice and I bought back the totaled vehicle each time. Because of the age of the vehicle, it was not required to be branded so it remained a clean title despite being "totaled" twice.

Sent from my mobile look-at device

BobnOH · Aug 11, 2017

Genesis said:
Huh?
Collision and comprehensive coverage have not been required as a matter of law anywhere I've ever lived in the US (several different states) nor does it make sense for it to be required. )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))).)

Thanks for straightening me out. I meant Liability, not Collision.

Write Off?

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

not-a-mechanic

Veteran Member

not-a-mechanic

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

not-a-mechanic

Veteran Member

not-a-mechanic

Top Post Dawg

not-a-mechanic

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

not-a-mechanic